New Steam hardware inbound

[Dragon1-1]

25 minutes ago, kksnowbear said:

It's not personal, it's an informed and qualified professional observation.

Just because you fancy yourself a professional doesn't mean ever personal opinion of yours is a professional market analysis. In fact, Valve has actual people who are paid not to build PCs in a brick and mortar store, but to look at market trends, surveys and telemetry, then forecast what kind of products people the company can make that customers will want to buy. That is where you go for an actual professional opinion. Yours is merely a personal opinion of an industry professional.

My opinion is informed and qualified, too. I'm a biophysicist, so a professional scientist, which includes a good understanding of thermodynamics. A computer radiator is a fairly trivial system compared to what goes on in a living cell. In a personal opinion of this scientific professional, there's nothing preventing this little toy box from being a reliable means to play games on a TV. Not power draw, not TDP, not heat. If it has issues with any of these, it'll be because someone screwed the pooch somewhere, and Valve engineers have so far been good at not doing that. As for performance, we'll see, but the numbers Valve give are sufficient for most gaming an average person does.

You act like your experience means your opinions somehow hold more weight, despite all arguments to the contrary. In fact, you've shown pretty conclusively that you're ready to dismiss everything that doesn't fit into your experiences with an extremely limited customer base. Again, Valve doesn't care about you or any people that you support. It cares for the 75 million that bought a PS5, and might, for their next console, pick a Steam Machine instead.

It'll be easier for everyone if you just accept you're wrong and get on with your life. The universe doesn't revolve around you or your specific use cases. That you can't imagine all the other reasons people buy gaming laptops is a prime example of that.

Edited 14 hours ago by Dragon1-1

[LucShep]

3 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

Anyhow, have a great night fellas.  I have better stuff to do.  Buy all the underpowered miniPCs ya want.  Tell others, too.

That way, when they all finally decide to step up to real gaming computers, there will be more clients for builders like me

Sorry, but couldn't help commenting this one - the whole “real gaming computer”  label carries a lot of baggage, and not the good kind.
It groups people, it gatekeeps, and it creates the exact kind of negativity that has always pushed -and still pushes- a lot of potential players away from the hobby.
This is the part that clearly - to me anyway - you clearly haven't understood.

A lot of people are excited for this Steam Machine precisely because they’re not interested in “hardcore gaming” or chasing the highest-end hardware.
Precisely because they can't relate and hate that "grouping" and "elistism" aspect of the hobby. It's more than just the money aspect (as relevant as that is).
They want something small, simple, quiet, affordable, supported, and capable of running the games they actually enjoy - without the ultra-high expectations that enthusiasts (like in these forums) aim for.

Whether it’s for gaming in the living room, in a bedroom, at a friend’s place, with family, or during a party… let’s be honest: your $4,500+ tower isn’t exactly ideal for that, is it?
And honestly, that’s what kept LAN parties alive back in the day (good times - anyone remember those?) : portability and convenience, not 2-kilowatt monster rigs.

Nobody needs a $1,500+ GPU to have fun. Plenty of people buy them, sure - but spending that kind of money doesn’t make anyone more “legit” than someone happily playing on a modest box.
It just makes them an enthusiast - the same way someone with a friggin $20,000 carbon/titanium push bike isn’t “more of a cyclist” than someone enjoying a basic $200 one.

Valve understands this broader audience, and they clearly saw a huge gap - a real opportunity - that nobody else was addressing.
That’s exactly why a small, efficient SteamOS box makes sense for so many people (more or less depending on the final unknown price).

Different kinds of players, different needs - and there’s room for all of them.
And who knows, some of those folks might eventually jump deeper into the hobby and end up flying DCS... 

Edited 12 hours ago by LucShep

[Aapje]

9 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

I didn't say it was "automatically" anything.

You actually did say that "certain things inherently contain weaknesses." And "The relevant point is that, in any event, the rules of heat/size apply...always have, always will.  Pesky physics."

Then when people address those statements, you come up with contradictory claims that frustrate the other people in the discussion and cause them to seek clarification or to make objections, but you just keep coming up with more inconsistent statements that means that the debate fails to move past the point. This kind of debating style is exactly why debates with you have a tendency to keep going in circles.

9 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

But it is, in my estimation, a design with unnecessary potential for reliability weaknesses.

From an engineering perspective, this is just total nonsense. A Raspberry Pi is very reliable despite being very small and having minimal cooling, because it doesn't use much power. Thermal reliability issues are about keeping components within safe thermal limits. This is not even just about cooling, but also keeping heat away from thermally sensitive components, even if that means that other components stay hotter.

If the thermal solution is adequate for heat that is being produced, then there is no reason why a relatively small device can't be reliable. Given that these devices can measure the heat, they can ramp up the fan or throttle down the chips when excessive heat is detected.

Note that full size desktops nearly always have a cooling solution that is very inefficient, because desktops also sacrifice optimal cooling. However, they sacrifice them for flexibility in components and room to do easy maintenance.

9 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

Millions of people buying underpowered "gaming" laptops doesn't prove they're a good idea.  It simply shows people will buy anything that is marketed properly, that's it.  They're good for traveling people who like to game, or similar situations.  Performance is sacrificed for the sake of portability. That's fine, just call it what it is.

It's not about what I don't like personally.  You consistently try to bring "personal" into a discussion.  It's not personal, it's an informed and qualified professional observation. 

So on the one hand you admit that there is a benefit to this trade-off, but then you argue that the only reason why people buy these things in large volume is due to deceptive marketing, rather than that many people simply prefer this trade-off.

This dismissal of choices that you don't seem to understand and/or like is exactly why people are saying that you judge things based on your personal preferences, and not professionally.

9 hours ago, kksnowbear said:

Is it possible for you to have a discussion without the personal attacks?

It is typical for discussions with you that you interpret even the mildest criticisms of your debating style as personal attacks, and this utter inability to take criticism is surely why you keep persisting in behavior that causes these out of control and unproductive debates. When those happen on this forum, you are typically the common factor. These bad debates appear to frustrate you greatly, so this inability to improve yourself seems to hurts you. So when I make these statements, I do so because I think that if you would take them to heart, it will be good for everyone, not in the least, you.

Edited 5 hours ago by Aapje