NVG and lowlight ops

[DaveRindner]

Kudos to ED team. By far the best sim I have played. Love it. Rotary dynamics are top notch.

I served in US Army, as Artillery Officer in '90s. So I had some experience with AN/PVS binocular goggles, US Army and Marines use. They are a little grainy, but even at high gain, you van make out detail, depth, and moonshadows. I have no doubt that ED modeled night vision accurately, based on Russian NVG googles. Assuming that. Those things are downright dangerous. I can't see crap. Terrain, buildings, and trees, come render barely passable, but looking at TV and targeting , can't make anything out. Very noisy and grainy. Plus the tunnel vision. I tried all sorts combinations of NVG brightness, and brightness/contrast of TV. Way hard to make anything out. If this is how it is in real life, KA-50 needs better, night vision devices. I don't think I'd want to fly this thing in realife with those tools. Is there a trick to NVG use in KA50.

Otherwise really great!

[Kwill]

The human eye has way higher resolution than you could get with a computer screen Dave, so in real life it's not as bad as in the sim.

[EvilBivol-1]

Thanks for the feedback, DaveRindner. NVG effects can be difficult to model accurately, because they depend heavily on the game engine's lighting capabilities. Having never used these goggles in particular, I don't know how specifically realistic this model is, but in general terms Russian NVGs are known to perform worse than their western equivalents and the older the model, the greater the disparity. In the case of the Ka-50, the NVGs are intended to aid navigation and non-combat missions. ED has received some feedback from Russian pilots that the view in reality is actually worse than in the sim, although I'm always skeptical about such feedback without knowing the pilot's familiarity with the simulation controls, graphics options, etc.

 

Lack of effective night-fighting capability was certainly one of the shortcomings of the Ka-50, proudly represented in the sim. :)

Edited September 27, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

[DaveRindner]

Owning The Night

 

Anyone who served in ground US/NATO armed forces, and have gone through advanced training. Gets drilled in to their head, WE OWN THE NIGHT. Just about everything they do, on a tactical level, they do at night. Or mission is started at night. Two items that a soldier prefers to load in place of MRE or pogeybait(unauthorised food items), are batteries for their NVG gear. Everybody carries spare batteries. Every direct fire weapon has an attach point for low light device. Rotary crews especcially train with night gear. I am saying that I've read on threads, and YouTube, how KA50 is superior to AH-64 or AH-1W. On an airframe level. Perhaps, I am not sure. But sensor wise. Apache or AH-1W (NTS), or Mangusta, or Tiger, wil eat it alive, given similar crew skill level. German crews are particulary good with their Tigers. The do crazy crap. Like hide behind a treeline, hovering at 1 meter, and rotors 5 meters away from nearest tree. In pitch dark. Autohovering in ground effect, on reduced power, they are very quiet, and can loiter. NATO crews use this as anti-armour ambush tactic. We would joke how silent black UN helicopters are not an urban myth. Mangusta and Tiger have this mast mounted sight (IR/laser/or mmmRadar). They only expose top half of the sensor sphere, for target aquistion and targeting. They have this advanced auto-hover, where aircraft won't drift more then 6" in any axes. The crews use translational lift from the anti-torque rotor, to crab the aircraft without banking. NATO crews also train for LOAL engagement. Thats where your buddy fires his Hellfire/Brimstone from long range, hidden far from target. The designating crew pops up, and starts laser illuminating the target about 5-10 seconds before the missile starts its terminal dive. BOOM. The designator crew immediately beets feet. Then they setup somewhere else to do it all over again. Tactic is called Shoot'n'scoot. Raytheon makes this doohicky, where IR and lightamp are sensor fused. Advanced fixed wing have synthetic aperture multimm radar fused with IR and lightamp. Checkout F-35 Distributed Aperture System.It is downright scary how good it looks. Its like grey/amber version of the world. DSP's filter out the gain noise.

I am saying that the sensors give a slower airframe an advantage. For helicopters, speed and maneuverability is not as important as their sensor suite

I suspect that the actual 'block' of KA50 being simulated is late 80's, early '90s. Russian army now has access to the same DSP as NATO. So the actual airframes in service are likely outfitted with latest sensors. In the manual there is a photo of KA50 at '99 airshow with nosemounted sphere sensor. My opinion, that thing belongs on top of the mast. Assuming that the coax rotormast can accomodate the sensor. I am wondering if that was one of the reasons Russian Army chose MI-28 as its standard attack helicopter.

I am still learning the sim. But I am up to hovering. So I practice flying (scooting) from treeline to treeline.

[EvilBivol-1]

Dave, you bring up a lot of different points, many of which have been hashed and rehashed here since the sim's release.

 

In short, the Ka-50 modeled in DCS is the standard in-service model of today as officially adopted in 1994 and upgraded in the early 00's (mainly adding the ABRIS navigation system). The avionics suite does not include any native night-vision attack sensors, besides the pilot's NVGs and is generally of mid-80s generation. The lack of night-fighting capability was one of the shortcomings of the Ka-50 that was to be addressed in its future developments, as seen in various versions of the Ka-50Sh (Ka-50N) with additional IIR optics. Given the demise of the USSR and the resulting lack of funding in Russia, none of these developments ever made it onto service machines, which themselves only comprise a dozen or so airframes, even fewer of which are probably airworthy today.

 

However, the Ka-50 has become a very popular character among military enthusiasts. IMHO, this reputation is well deserved, because the concept was quite daring and original, for many especially coming from the USSR. Although it may have lacked competitive attack sensors at the time, it was outfitted with probably one of the more advanced and automated flight-navigation suites of its time. Truly, the helicopter can more or less fly itself with minimal pilot input form take-off to landing.

 

At this point, the Russian military has chosen to accept the Mi-28N as its main attack helicopter, probably because it offers greater commonality with existing helicopter types and is more conventional. In addition, a small number of two-seat Ka-52s are slated for service for "special operations" purposes, whatever that means. The original design single-seat Ka-50 production line has been closed, but there are some unofficial indications that the remaining service machines may still undergo some upgrading in the future.

 

Originally, it was the Ka-50 that was selected by the Soviet military in favor of the Mi-28 in the 1980s. The rest is history.

Edited September 27, 2009 by EvilBivol-1

[DaveRindner]

Actually. Special Forces Suppourt, is perfect job for KA50. It has high hover ceiling, and thus can suppourt Spetsnaz in the mountains. Recall how Hind-Ds had to fast rolling takeoffs in Afganistan becouse of altitude.Its fast and survivable so it provide close air in close proximity to friendlies. No anti-torque rotor, so it can absorb DsHK hits. Torque rotors as suseptible to DsHK rounds (14.5) and RPG. As Americans found out in Somalia, and more recently in Iraq and Afganistan. Hind and MI28 cockpit tubs can take a 23mm, but torque rotors are most fragile and vulnerable part of helicopter. Strangely the SOP for CASEVAC pickup in nonsecure area, is to land facing backwards to the threat. I guess its harded to hit anything vital from that aspect. I like KA50's ability to act as virtual fixed wing aircraft, carrying freefall ordinance. Its almost a SU-25T/39, and it can land vertically with bringback ordinance. Apache and Cobra don't carry freefall bombs. At least I've never seen them. Normal loadout is Hellfire and 70mm FFARs.

MI28 is more suited to conventional attack helicopter roles, specifically maneuver unit CAS, screeining, and anti-armour.

As to why MI-28 was chosen. Could be politics, operating costs, training/conversion costs.

I recall '93 technical breifing ( Military Power of CIS), KA50 was described as a dedicated anti-helicopter helicopter. It was illustrated carrying R-73 (Archers), and podded SA-18 Strelas. Guess they were off the mark.