Noob PC set up advice

[RichTee]

So, after wasting my early years on Microprose 'Janes Apache Gunship' on the C64 and tape drive (i kid you not) then not simming for years (there just arn't any sims for the PS3) and trolling this forum I've bitten the bullet.

 

My Saitek x52 is on it's way along with my disc of BlackShark (Lock On is sitting on the shelf too).

 

While I save for my MGR (Monster Gaming Rig*) I've a home build that's a year and a half old doing nothing I'd like to at least get started on, and would like advice on setting up for performance. It will only be used for gaming and then only BS and LO.

 

Intel Xeon X3220 2.4Ghz / 8Mb Cache / 1066 (can be oc'ed on air upto 2.8/3.2GHz)

4 GB Corsair DDR3

Intel DP45SG MoBo (has 2 PCIe x16 ver2 slots)

ATI 4650 1GB DDR3(? will have to check)

Dual 10K 73GB Raptors (Stripped 4 boot)

PCIe x4 SAS Card - 4x73GB 10K 2.5" SAS HD's (Striped 4 storage)

 

So....I have at my disposal for OS 32 bit and 64 bit Win XP, and a Benq 24" 1920 x 1200 HD monitor and if I can use them a pair of Dell 1200x1024 17" monitors.

 

What I have to ask is - am I okay on XP 32 bit? Or should I use 64 bit version to use all the ram?

 

Can I use the 17" Dell's for either side or below of the 24"?

 

Would it be worth getting a second ATI 4650 (quite cheap now) to run in crossfire even if I don't use the two 17" monitors?:joystick:

 

Any other advice.:music_whistling:

 

* MGR build to commence post Christmas, don't worry, I'll be picking brains and talking specs for that later!:P

[CyBerkut]

My opinion, for what it is worth...

 

- Use the 64 bit Operating System. You want the access to the RAM.

- With due caution / care, do the overclocking. This sim is widely considered to be more limited by the CPU than the graphics. By using XP you are only going to get 1 core / 1 thread of CPU running the sim, so you especially want the higher clock rate.

- Before deciding on the purchase of an additional graphics card, do some looking around at what other people are doing for multiple monitor setups. Since you are on XP, you retain the ability to do both horizontal and vertical spanning. That ability has been intentionally removed by M$ in Vista and Win 7. You should probably scope out the SoftTH forums. With enough video output ports, you should be able to use all three monitors. Your second card doesn't need to necessarily be an ATI 4650, with SoftTH, and you would not be running the video cards in CrossFire, as I understand it.

 

Have fun! :joystick:

[RichTee]

Many thanks CyBerkut! DVD arrived today - clean installing xp64 over the weekend ready for DCS.

 

Will check out SoftTH. I found an older Gigabyte PCIe ATi (x800 Radeon?) card sitting around at work. It's going in my 2nd 2.0 16x PCIe slot.

 

Been trawling through the multi monitor setups in the forums, my God there's some systems to aspier too! (eyes a perfectly good Acer One just to steal the screen for SKVAL)

 

Once again, cheers!

[Kuky]

you'll want the CPU to be as fast as possible but since no sim today uses multi-cores on CPU you should be looking to get as higher clock on it as you can. I would not recoment going multi GPU setup, better just upgrade your card and you won't need the fastest that's out there, unless you go really high resolutions or in your case if you decide to go multi-monitor setup... then you will need one of the fastest cards.

[RichTee]

Thanks Kuky,

 

I've OCed my Xeon to 3.2 - With regards to multi monitor as I understood it my second card just acts as an output for softTH, with the rendering done on the first card. Is it that the 4650 (about 18mts old) won't do 2 physical monitors or 3 monitors - 2 to output and render to a 3rd? It's the 1GB DDR3 version.

Maybe I will try with just flight on the 24" and use the 2nd/3rd monitors for the SKVAL / ABRIS screens, which should have a lower performance requirment?

 

I'm avoiding buying anything expensive (CPU's / GPU's etc) until I start my new build in the new year.

[Kuky]

I don't think your card will be able to handle 2 or 3 monitors as then it'll have to run pretty high resolution... I don't know what you consider expensive but latest ATI card HD5870 seems really good exactly for this and here in Australia you can get it for AUD$570... that is not that much I think considering what the card can do but I don't know your situation so can't say what's expensive or not for you... but look you can try putting the second card in and see how it handles first hand.

[RichTee]

Thanks Kuky - I forget I'm already asking the card to drive a 1920 x 1200 centre screen. Most of the read ups I've done here are of course driving 1200 x 1024 screens for same or (most cases) better spec'ed gpu's.

The 5xxx series promises great things, but £300 for a gpu? Not till the New Year I'm afraid.

Cheers

[thinkr]

Maybe I will try with just flight on the 24" and use the 2nd/3rd monitors for the SKVAL / ABRIS screens, which should have a lower performance requirment?

 

If that were even possible i would be jumping up and down right now... ;)

I'm pretty sure its not:(

[Feuerfalke]

What I have to ask is - am I okay on XP 32 bit? Or should I use 64 bit version to use all the ram?

 

You'd be okay with 32bit, as DCS-BS does not benefit from a 64bit system, yet. Most 32bit applications are limited to 2GB anyway just like BS, so you have little use for more than that when playing BS.

But I'd still recommend a 64bit system, as future releases probably include 64bit executables.

 

To be honest, I'd have gone for Vista/Win7 though, as you have a Quad-Core CPU, but with any version of XP you only use a single core per process fully. With Vista/Win7 your performance would increase quite a lot, as you can see yourself in the many threads about this. The "secret" is, that LO and DCS-BS are very CPU-limited and features with DX10 allow a single process to be spread on multiple cores, thus of course increasing performance. XP does not have DX10 and it only has multicore support when patched and set up accordingly - still the performance boost is minimal.

[EtherealN]

since no sim today uses multi-cores on CPU

 

Incorrect, Rise of Flight at least claims to be multithreaded.

 

That aside, I would mirror FF's sentiment that the OP should consider Vista or W7 instead of XP.

[Kuky]

^^^^

Do they claim only or have people actually proven by testing that it actually uses more than one CPU and that there's benefit with 4 core over 2 core CPU for example?

[EtherealN]

I don't have the link handy, but an interview with a producer said that the simulator will place physics on one core, AI on another and so on. They also stated specifically that they recommend 4-core processors since a dualcore processor will not allow the simulator to start as many threads.

[EtherealN]

WoH: That seems to be suitable model for us normal users who do not own a Cray Supercomputer :) Up to how many CPU cores can be used for the simulation?

 

Loft: First of all, of course, the number of CPU cores influences quantity of planes modeled in a given scene. Two CPU cores are considered as a minimum which is necessary for smooth and comfortable game-play. Basically this increase in productivity allowed us to make our dream come true. Four CPU Cores can be considered as an optimum choice for today and for the future.

 

WoH: How many CPU cores will be used exclusively for the physics calculations?

 

Loft: It depends on number of CPU cores in your system. If you running two CPU Cores, physics will be processed on one core and graphics - on another.

 

http://www.wingsofhonour.com/riseofflight/articles/interview_neoqb_20090813/html_woh_riseofflight_interview_neoqb_20090813.en.html

 

EDIT:

So, to actually respond thoroughly - as far as I have seen it's "claim only", but I haven't actually looked for tests. It's not really difficult to see anyway, since they did write a wholly new engine for the game so they did have the advantage of a fresh start, and for new projects it is becoming standard to run multithreaded. The problem in the case of DCS is that the engine already exists and it wouldn't be far from a complete rewrite of the engine (slightly exhaggerated) for ED to "make it multithreaded". It adds complexity to develop it that way, but most mainstream products have the budget to cover that. Problem is the niche markets like DCS caters to where it's a lot less certain to recoup the investment.

 

I'll see if I find any benchmarks though that investigate RoF and PM them to you. This thread is getting derailed. :P

Edited October 5, 2009 by EtherealN

[RichTee]

Well in that case - I'll dual boot x64 / Win7 and as my Xeon is a Quad Core anyway & I'll upgrade my gpu before my cpu, moving my 4650 to the second PCIe x16 slot. Humm, and 5870 + 4650 would give me 4/5 outputs total (oww, hurts my head thinking about setting it up)

 

Anyone want to buy:

HP NW9440 laptop / Acer Aspire One / Genelec 1029's monitors - all cash to RichTee's GPU fund :)

 

many thinks for the info guys!

[RichTee]

Well - I've taken the plunge and am going i7 (OC'ed to 3.4ish) - I'm selling/sold my Quad Xeon x3220 and mobo on top of a load of other things that were sitting around.

 

My new budget will give me the option of.........

 

Dual 5870's

 

or

 

Dual GTX 285 maybe 295's

 

or 1 GPU (any of the above) and a single or dual SSD's

With or without XFire or SLI - what are your thoughts if the above option were availabe to you?

 

I think with the rapid progress but still high prices of SSD's I may hold off there - I've 2 x 72GB Raptors in stripe to use for the time being. And nVidia are not up to much until Q2 next year....DX10 nVidia or DX11 ATI?

 

This system will be for DCS:BS and Lomac only (and boinc / rosetta@home when not in use).

[EtherealN]

Depends a lot on what you intend to use the rig for. I don't see much point in SLI or CrossFire with DCS unless you intend to go for absurd AA and AF levels - however for other games that might come down the line it'll be nice, of course.

 

Personally, I'd go with a singular GPU (eyeballing a possible purchase of another one later), and save the money for any possible other upgrades that might happen - like liquid cooling or whatever might become attractive.

[RichTee]

Thanks EtherealN - may get some peddles instead to go with my X52