Using Toe brakes as rudder logitech G940?

[Kirai]

Something that have crossed my mind is that many helicopters and I think that includes the KA-50:s rudder pedals is used by using the toes or the front of the foot and pressing down the pedal to change direction not by pressing the leggs forward. Am I right? I think it would be more precise to use the toe brakes on the G940 to make rudder controlls and to assign a button on the cyclic for the wheel brakes (as it is on the real KA-50). The thing is that I cant find a way to do this cause I can only assign one axis input for the rudder, not left and right. To assign it to the keystrokes works but then you always go full out and that is not precise.

 

Any suggestion or am I out in lala land? :)

[EtherealN]

You could probably do it, since I know some people have managed to make regular racing wheel pedal sets to work. I don't know how they did that, though.

 

However, the Ka-50 does not have "toe pedals", it has push pedals. Visual confirmation:

 

Start DCS

Look down

Rshift-P

Apply rudder

 

So the Logitech pedals you are using are most likely relatively close.

[AlphaOneSix]

Something that have crossed my mind is that many helicopters and I think that includes the KA-50:s rudder pedals is used by using the toes or the front of the foot and pressing down the pedal to change direction not by pressing the leggs forward. Am I right?

 

No, the whole pedal moves.

[159th_Falcon]

In a helicopter the Yaw channel is controlled by using pedals.

To turn left you push the left pedal away from you, note that while your doing this the right pedal will come towards you.

To turn right you would logically do the opposite.

So we can conclude that the left and right pedals can NOT be operated individually but are actually connected to each other mechanically.

 

Now the brakes.

These are controlled using the same pedals you use to control the Yaw.

Though, for braking you dont push the pedals away but you tilt em, rotating the top of the pedal towards the front of the helicopter. You can apply brakes individually by only using either left or right pedal. If this results in the corresponding wheels only braking left or right depends on the helicopter.

 

Long story made short, your G940 pedals are working exactly as they should and in the same way as an real helicopter.

 

Now your curious how i know this and what my references are of course;

Well im my own reference and i know this because i studied for an Aircraft Maintenance Technician and i am currently working as technical staff for an offshore helicopter operator in the Netherlands

 

I hope you found this information usefull

[AlphaOneSix]

No Russian helicopters, at least none that I know of, have toe brakes. Instead they use a brake lever, like that used on a bicycle, mounted on the cyclic. They cannot do differential braking like you see on western helicopters that do use toe brakes.

[EtherealN]

Falcon, the difference is in how the pedals move. As an example, in many civilian aircraft (especially those of smaller size), you do not push the pedal. The bottom of the pedal stays fixed. What you push is the top of the pedal, in much the same way as you push the pedals in your automobile.

 

However, it is true that even in these cases there will be an opposite movement in the other pedal. But in many aircraft you will be operating the pedals without your heel ever moving.

 

(How do I know this? It's true for all 5 aircraft types I've done conversion for IRL, and the one I'm doing conversion for right now. :P )

Edited October 21, 2009 by EtherealN
I forgot a conversion I did just for the heck of it during summer...

[AlphaOneSix]

I'm assuming these are all aircraft where there is a direct link between your pedals and the conttrol surface? I.e. no hydraulic boosters/actuators in between.

 

The heel not moving is common in helicopters, though. I mean, the entire pedal moves, but many pilots will rest their heels on the floor and operate the pedals with their toes. This is even more true for helicopters where the pedal is very small, so you can't rest your whole foot on it even it you wanted to, e.g. Bell helicopters and the Mi-8/17.

[EtherealN]

Yes, the ones I've flown so far have no hydraulics or servos. The proper manly type of "fly-by-wire". :D

[159th_Falcon]

Really etherean, i have never ever seen an helicopter or plane controlling its Yaw in the way you described, interesting to think about though.

 

For general info, the helicopters are work on are medium sized helicopters like the S-76B and they all have hydraulic servo's/actuators/boosters

(manufacturers call em different but in most cases the working and purpose is the same)

 

Now my question is, does the ka-50 have hydraulic servo's on the yaw channel? i guess it does giving the fact its an fairly heavy helicopter.

[AlphaOneSix]

Now that I think of it, I got to fly a fairly small single engine prop a few months ago, and it had toe brakes and the whole pedal moved forward and backward....hmmm.

[EtherealN]

I'd assume it does so, yeah. And it is true that the Ka-50 specifically has push-pedals - at least if the animation in cockpit is correct. :)

 

The design on the pedals on my aircraft are pretty simple - a hinge level with your heel and something for your toes to push at. That upper part is connected to a wire that continues aft to a round flywheel that is directly connected to the rudder. Pushing the right pedal then causes the flywheel to turn and therefore also the rudder.

 

I am not aware of a helicopter that uses this method though - the fact that most helicopters do not control yaw with a rudder makes it more difficult, but there's nothing inherent in the pedal assembly design that prohibits it. (You can just have the hinge extend under the floor to have it's position read and the input translated to controls in the rotors.

 

EDIT:

Well Alpha, I mainly fly aircraft that don't have engines. :P Though I'm currently converting to the SF25. After that one I'm going to get certified on this:

 

 

Somehow people are insisting that I author a will first. :D

Edited October 21, 2009 by EtherealN

[159th_Falcon]

Lets say both options are in use but that especially in the heavy-er type of aircraft (i guess in excess of 2500KG) the system is hydraulically boosted and the whole pedal moves Forward and Back.

 

Anyway to come back to the original question and answer conserning the KA-50

The real one has pedals that move Forward and Backward completely, and you will need to move your legs to be able to push it trough its full range of travel.

 

Etherean, i dont think there's a need for a will whit that craft.

That is if your lucky enough it doesn't get high nor fast enough to cause any serious harm to people in it or near it :music_whistling:

[Kirai]

I thank you all for the answer and I was wrong. My mistake must have been watching real helicopters on film and some, as someone mentioned, reste their heels on the floor and just using their toes/front of the foot when applying rudder :)

 

Why I asked this question is because sometimes when I apply rudder I slip and I apply to much, my leggs are shaking maybe cause Im to tense :P. If I used the toe brakes instead and just flipping my foot this problem would be eliminated. Well I want my bird to be realistic so in this case my idea will go to the trash can :P

[SytRep]

Mod 'em

 

Have you considered a mod to the pedal, such as here,http://www.kwikpit.com/eze_mod.htm with a bit of effort you could probably work something out for the G940 pedal and it won't permanently alter them. If you do it, don't forget to post some pics

 

'Rep

[Kirai]

Have you considered a mod to the pedal, such as here,http://www.kwikpit.com/eze_mod.htm with a bit of effort you could probably work something out for the G940 pedal and it won't permanently alter them. If you do it, don't forget to post some pics

 

'Rep

 

When I look at this mod I see that its almost what I have done. I have changed the angle of the rudders, used some foam but maybe I can do it better :)

 

Thanks for the link

Edited October 23, 2009 by Kirai