Manually aiming and firing of rockets while moving

[Stingray]

Howdy, I've been practicing performing unguided rocket attacks while moving. I have a mission with a few groups of 10 or so transports lined up, and see how many I can hit in one pass, the results are rarely good. Typically I setup my run 5-7 km before the targets to get trim, level and straightened, and have been experimenting firing anywhere between 3km and 1km from the targets, then breaking to a side at 1km out. I am trying to aim by zooming in on the rocket piper, placing the rocket piper on the targets and firing 2-4 rockets (1 from each pod for now). The selector on the rear aux-panel is set for 0 for unguided rockets, weapon release mode on auto, I am not locking targets with the shval and the shval is not in gunsight mode.

 

The problem I am having is that I am having trouble moving the rocket piper exactly where I want, and it feels that I am always fighting the stabilization/auto pilot. I fly with the autopilot holds on typically, except altitude, trim constantly and have tried using the flight director mode as well. In all of the modes, it seems like I fight the autopilot, and my aim really bounces around when aiming.

 

My solution has been to always fly with the trimmer held down when I am manually aiming rockets and guns, and it seems that I can can aim fine this way. I am wondering if I could be doing something different with the flight director mode on to aim a bit better. I have had to assign a secondary trimmer button on my throttle so that I could both hold the trimmer down and easily release the rockets using the stick, as I was having trouble both holding down the trimmer and hitting the release with my thumb.

 

If I lock onto a target in the shval, I can do the run no problem, the problem is that I only have time to take out a target or two before I break. Ideally I'd like to avoid having to select and lock each target using the shval and do more of a rocket strafe along the entire row of vehicles using the piper.

 

Another question is, how, if at all, to use the laser ranging when manually attacking with rockets. I am wondering if it is possible to have the piper compute the landing point of the rockets accurately on the topography like in the A-10 for example. Would having the shval in gunsight mode aim the laser range finder where the rockets are aimed and help in the computations for example?

 

I welcome any criticisms, thoughts or ideas on the best way to do this type of manual rocket attack.

 

 

Edit: another question, should I be flying so that my aircraft is trimmed, i.e. the black ball is in the center of the ADI, or so that the rocket piper and the centerline of aircraft marker in the HUD are aligned?

 

Thanks,

 

S. :joystick:

Edited December 17, 2009 by Stingray

[GGTharos]

Howdy, I've been practicing performing unguided rocket attacks while moving. I have a mission with a few groups of 10 or so transports lined up, and see how many I can hit in one pass, the results are rarely good. Typically I setup my run 5-7 km before the targets to get trim, level and straightened, and have been experimenting firing anywhere between 3km and 1km from the targets, then breaking to a side at 1km out. I am trying to aim by zooming in on the rocket piper, placing the rocket piper on the targets and firing 2-4 rockets (1 from each pod for now). The selector on the rear aux-panel is set for 0 for unguided rockets, weapon release mode on auto, I am not locking targets with the shval and the shval is not in gunsight mode.

 

Mistake one: You're not ranging, but you explained this below. First and foremost, for rocket strafing, use more rockets.

Mistake two: Zooming in on the pipper. A real pilot cannot do this - stop doing it, you aren't some sort of rocket-sniper. Rockets are artillery and as such, inaccurate. Your firing range is correct.

 

The problem I am having is that I am having trouble moving the rocket piper exactly where I want, and it feels that I am always fighting the stabilization/auto pilot. I fly with the autopilot holds on typically, except altitude, trim constantly and have tried using the flight director mode as well. In all of the modes, it seems like I fight the autopilot, and my aim really bounces around when aiming.

 

You should have the pipper inside the target circle (because really, you should be using the shkval or at minimum gunsight) and just launch your 20 or so rockets when the pipper is STABLE inside the target circle. You can shape the pattern by gently moving the stick.

 

The trick here is that all your flight parameters (speed, altitute, bank, pitch and yaw) must be stable. If you're climbing, descending, turning, all that fun stuff - you'll never get an accurate shot.

 

My solution has been to always fly with the trimmer held down when I am manually aiming rockets and guns, and it seems that I can can aim fine this way. I am wondering if I could be doing something different with the flight director mode on to aim a bit better. I have had to assign a secondary trimmer button on my throttle so that I could both hold the trimmer down and easily release the rockets using the stick, as I was having trouble both holding down the trimmer and hitting the release with my thumb.

 

Whatever works, right? :D Typically fighting the trimmer might mean you're not trimmed enough, etc etc.

 

If I lock onto a target in the shval, I can do the run no problem, the problem is that I only have time to take out a target or two before I break. Ideally I'd like to avoid having to select and lock each target using the shval and do more of a rocket strafe along the entire row of vehicles using the piper.

 

You can strafe all of them. But we're talking about strafing, not rocket sniping. Your philosophy/approach to the subject is simply incorrect.

 

Another question is, how, if at all, to use the laser ranging when manually attacking with rockets. I am wondering if it is possible to have the piper compute the landing point of the rockets accurately on the topography like in the A-10 for example. Would having the shval in gunsight mode aim the laser range finder where the rockets are aimed and help in the computations for example?

 

Yes, you need gunsight or just plain ole good ranging with skval.

 

 

I welcome any criticisms, thoughts or ideas on the best way to do this type of manual rocket attack.

 

Manual attacks are done with setka, not pippers... ;)

 

Edit: another question, should I be flying so that my aircraft is trimmed, i.e. the black ball is in the center of the ADI, or so that the rocket piper and the centerline of aircraft marker in the HUD are aligned?

 

Thanks,

 

S. :joystick:

 

You should be flying so that the rocket pipper is close to the centerline, yes. Any forces your heli generates at the moment of launch will be applied to your rockets as they exit the pods. Fly stable.

[Hunt3r.j2]

Basically, if you're going to strafe, do a balls out 20 rocket artillery strike. Rockets are meant to blanket an area, not to be a weaker Vikhr.

 

That, and it's probably a good idea to make sure you're absolutely stable and you have a target locked up in the Shkval, so you have a visual cue of what to hit.

[DANWATTO]

So if your rockets are only good for 3-4 attacks, why not carry 24 vikhrs?

 

Is it weight, cost, or they just can't be put on the hardpoints?

 

You could do probably 15-20 kills with the vikhrs, from outside SAM range.

 

As for the fun factor, it's probably not there to just use vikhrs only.

[GGTharos]

They can't be put on the hardpoints. Rockets have their place as well, but simulations don't reflect it very easily - a much more advanced damage model as well as some other types of AI modeling are needed to really bring out the nuances of rocket usage. They are far more effective against certain targets (both cost-wise and effect-wise) against area targets.

 

Things like troops being afraid of artillery etc - a squad of soldiers made ineffective by a rocket attack even if you don't get half of'em, or vehicles becoming immobilized even though they aren't actually destroyed. It isn't reflected in either scoring nor AI action typically.

 

Despite this, DCS models the heli faithfully and you'll have to fill in for some of what it doesn't do yourself at least for now. And that means no Vikhrs on the inner hardpoints ;)

Edited December 18, 2009 by GGTharos

[Panzertard]

Basically, if you're going to strafe, do a balls out 20 rocket artillery strike. Rockets are meant to blanket an area, not to be a weaker Vikhr.

Exactly - it's a lightweight artillery - against soft targets.

Good for 1-3 kills (or if you're lucky, they gathered alot of soft targets within a circle of 500 m) ;)

I normally spend 10-15 rockets per assault - if I attack using range.

Closer and more precise - I might spend 6-8 rockets.

 

And I save the Vikhrs for the SAM/Armor/High Threats.

 

So if your rockets are only good for 3-4 attacks, why not carry 24 vikhrs?

 

Is it weight, cost, or they just can't be put on the hardpoints?

Hardpoints - the inner cant tilt. Dont know about the weight factor.

 

But why not use your guns - good for some 5-10-15 kills, depending or your distance, type of target etc.

 

What I do is that I divide my threats / targets into the following "zones";

- Long range, high threat - Vikhr

- Medium; If soft target; Rockets

- Medium/Short; If soft target; Guns HP

- Short/Lightly Armed; Guns AP

If it's a hard target I would use Vikhr anyway - unless I carry the S-13 rockets.

 

Flying towards a targetzone I start working on the threats in that manner - outwards/high threat/armored --> inwards/low threat/soft targets.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Panzertard

[Frederf]

One of the biggest problems with the rockets in DCS:BS is that they are often the S-8KOM variety which are anti-armor with near 0 indirect attack ability. You have to hit a tank to make it go boom which doesn't really happen even with a full load on a perfect shot.

 

The S-8OFP2 (which are not part of the default load options) are soft-target type which is what you really want to use a rocket for anyway.

 

The "strafe" attack where your bullets/rockets/whatever make a line like in the movies is bad. A real unguided munition attack wants to put all the rounds in a "fuzzy circle." I like to use the normal Shkval put dot-on-dot way of aiming. Doing a gunsight run doesn't give a good feedback for being stable on target since there's only 1 dot unless you physically can see the target through the HUD. Unstable = spread out impacts = low rocket density = miss.

 

Generally I shoot on the Long setting. If I'm going to miss I want to miss once and get out of there and not get shot down.

[asparagin]

 

Another question is, how, if at all, to use the laser ranging when manually attacking with rockets. I am wondering if it is possible to have the piper compute the landing point of the rockets accurately on the topography like in the A-10 for example. Would having the shval in gunsight mode aim the laser range finder where the rockets are aimed and help in the computations for example?

 

 

I find the laser usefull. You can lock a target in the middle of the convoy and like this you will have a reference point. With this in mind launch your rain with a slight movement of the joystick (like GG said) so you cover most of the convoy line.

[Frederf]

A correct laser rangefinder range is pretty much required if you want to hit the broad side of a barn at 2000m+.