Missile Evasion in F-15?

[GGTharos]

First, an advanced missile (N/A FC) will not bother turning this hard with you until it's terminal, so snaking is of utility only near Rmax. It will probably work fine for LO up to medium distances, but what if you don't know you're under attack, like TWS shots? Those can and do happen online.

 

In addition, it doesn't matter how much you want to pull me into your HUD, I can drop your lock at will any time I want, and the more you keep me in your HUD, the more I win.

[Spidey209]

GG, the only time I want you in the centre of the HUD is to fire a missle, on the basis that any direction change in the beginning of the missile's flight will have a more drastic effect on it's energy.

 

It just so happens that with Snake method you conveniently cross across the HUD every pass.

 

Snake method would be "more" effective against an unknown TWS ET shot because at least you are maneuvering ( vs F-Pole method )

 

You mention a very important point, the unexpected, unknown TWS or ET shot. This discussion has been about a Head to Head with a known incoming missile. An Ace would avoid this situation like the plague and work towards a shot that the victim doesn't see coming. A topic for the advanced class.

 

Q How do I avoid an incoming Missile?

 

A Don't be there in the first place.

[RipKirby]

p.s. The year is 2010 and my work colleague has just put a "Spice Girls" album on in the warehouse. Do I have grounds for a complaint?

 

Yes, this constitutes harassment of the highest order, bordering on crimes on humanity! :megalol:

[GGTharos]

GG, the only time I want you in the centre of the HUD is to fire a missle, on the basis that any direction change in the beginning of the missile's flight will have a more drastic effect on it's energy.

 

It just so happens that with Snake method you conveniently cross across the HUD every pass.

 

Well it ...definitely would be convenient for me.

 

Snake method would be "more" effective against an unknown TWS ET shot because at least you are maneuvering ( vs F-Pole method )

 

The F-Pole is actually superior to snaking. When you snake, your geometry is not only predictable, but it gives me closure. I can pretty much do anything I want to you by just letting you come closer. :)

 

You mention a very important point, the unexpected, unknown TWS or ET shot. This discussion has been about a Head to Head with a known incoming missile. An Ace would avoid this situation like the plague and work towards a shot that the victim doesn't see coming. A topic for the advanced class.

 

Q How do I avoid an incoming Missile?

 

A Don't be there in the first place.

 

Which begs the question, why aren't you just going into the notch to start with and save yourself some effort?

[A.S]

Its absolutly nonsense to dogde missiles head-on by snaking if they are shot with high Pk.

Just the fact, that some fancy arcade "moves" do work in lockon is not the basis to believe those "methods" are proper ways and understanding of BVR, furthermore its a reason why 2.0 will try to fix that.

 

There are only 4 cases in which i would consider snaking noteworthy.

 

1. tactical formation reasons

2. very far long shots, and then not to dodge them but just to bleed the missile-energy early and even that is questionable as wise tactic considering there are smarter more logic ways.

3. A really close almost Rmin head-on shot with high target closure where the missile has not reached max-speed and even then it would be morelikely a break-break and not snaking.

4. If you "run out" a rear aspect tracking missile with closure on you (post 104).

(5.) Case 5 is hypothetical: if bandit is really close rear aspect and is about to fire....then this can help to make the missile overshoot.

 

It helps to divide the engagement range related to altitude of course in 3 zones. Far, Med and Close.

Eeach of those zones require different ways to fight a missile, considering you havent screwed up your options to do so.

 

In all my 1v1 BVR fights, either someone made a stuipid mistake and got hit, or many missiles were poofed just to set up the fight and enter the no escape zone with advantage and shoot the one first,

which cant be dodged anymore. And then of course you are already cold if you see the bandit turning into smoke.

Edited January 22, 2010 by A.S

[thaFunkster]

Why is it included in the Lock On Tutorials?

 

Just guessing, but I would have only thought they would include real life Flanker tactics..

[A.S]

read what i posted one post before you GOOD..

 

(1st line and point 2.)

[GGTharos]

The snake/barrel roll is not an invalid technique. It's just not universally valid - perhaps that is the best thing to say, rather than jumping down the 'well if you do that I'll do this' path as I did. Sorry about that.

[pauldy]

Well i guess Air Combat (or at least the lock on one) is like a cooked Chop Suey..

 

All the ingredients are there, but no two Chop suey dishes will ever look exactly the same.. no matter how similar the amount of ingredients are.

 

That Snaking, did work once.. I once nailed an Su-33 online with an AIM-7 whilst i was snaking.. with very high-Gs. The Sea flanker fired an R-27ER at me and i was able to evade it somehow..

 

That engagement occurred in close ranges (NEZs) but at low altitude.... and we were almost on the same altitude so no SARH gets fooled by ground clutter or so..

 

I dunno, maybe he f*cked up with his Situational awareness, i was lucky... or both

 

What i think (or rather learned..) of this all is that.. Players learn the basics..

Radar/Sensors operation, weapons, BFM, ACM, Missile defense, wingman management, etc..

 

Then apply them all accordingly based on the situation..

 

 

Anyway, I think i got the answers i wanted. at least i now know that the ALR-56/TEWS can somehow gauge the missile distances in-game..

Not that i'll only rely on it but i'll always keep that fact in mind should i get into a sticky situation.. :)