wierd question about the game engine....

[deadsmell]

I was just wondering to myself if it would be possible to use the engine to play around with say inventing a flying car.

 

Say if I knew how to create my own models and give them some sort of power source.

 

Could this be done?

 

Basically im asking if I could use the engine to study flight characteristics of anything I can think of?

 

Could I theoretically build a virtual flying machine the world has never seen, and test it with the engine? Would it give an accurate representation of how the vehicle would perform in real life?

 

Sorry, I realize this is kind of out there on the fringe, but my curiosity is genuine.

[slug88]

I think X-Plane is much better suited to this type of thing.

[sobek]

Basically im asking if I could use the engine to study flight characteristics of anything I can think of?

 

Could I theoretically build a virtual flying machine the world has never seen, and test it with the engine? Would it give an accurate representation of how the vehicle would perform in real life?

 

I think you're looking for X-Plane :)

 

IMHO, this sandbox thing won't work very well with the TFCSE though. I suspect that the flight model is handcrafted and not directly derived from the object's shape, so sure it would work, if beforehand, one had accurate flight envelope data of the craft in question.

[Boulund]

The question you're asking is exactly the one answered in what X-plane is.

Read about it on their homepage - it might be JUST what you're looking for

http://www.x-plane.com/index_desktop.html

[Bucic]

I think that the answer is no. First of all you don't have any interface to the TFCSE. Second TFCSE flight dynamics models are analytical (?) and not geometrical (?) like the X-Plane FMs. I guess that some core FM equations have to be rewritten for different designs e.g. you can't hook-up unconventional design ACs like joined wing or tandem wing AC to the FM that has been created for Su-25.

 

Edit:

Here you have some guts out, so to speak http://lockon.co.uk/index.php?scr=list&end_pos=10&lang=en&page=4

Edited January 19, 2010 by Bucic

[deadsmell]

Thanks for the great answers everyone.

 

Xplane looks truly fantastic. I hope to add that to the flight sim collection at some point.

 

Out of curiosity does anyone happen to know of any other physics based apps that might be available just to determine things like how much thrust is required to lift 1ton straight into the air 100 feet or things like that? A simple basic app will do, just to give me some idea. I know theres gotta be something like this out there.

 

 

I know its weird, but I think I could have fun with it, and hopefully learn alot in the process.

 

ok well anyway, thanks again for the great responses guys.

[EtherealN]

MathLab. :)

 

That can do everything from simming household appliance behaviour (when thrown) to calculating orbital dynamics (with graphical representation) and is also used for research in computational molecular evolution. (I have a friend working on a PHD in the latter, and the tools they use are sometimes very surprising - Google Earth f.ex was used to create a visual frontend of an epidemiolocial simulation they ran, which used Telco data on cell phone movements as input data. :P If you are a UK resident with a cell phone, you were in that study (albeit anonymously))

[Boulund]

MathLab. :)

Actually, it's MATLAB (Matrix Laboratory). But close enough ;)

Wonderful piece of software by the way. Couldn't live without it.

[Bucic]

Out of curiosity does anyone happen to know of any other physics based apps that might be available just to determine things like how much thrust is required to lift 1ton straight into the air 100 feet or things like that?

That's basic physics buddy :D You don't need any apps to calculate such things.

T=W=m*g

where:

T - thrust [N]

W - weight [N]

m - mass [kg]

g - earth acceleration [m/s^2]

 

/the terms are direct translations from Polish ; SI (proper :P) units used/

 

In case you mentioned height is insignificant unless you add time required for the task. Then you would use not so complicated kinematics equation and replace distance with your height of 100 feet.

 

Now, based on your posts I presume that you think that specialist software is needed earlier in the AC design process than it actually is. On many engineering courses the job is done with spreadsheet application (like OOo Calc or Excel) and equations. BTW, some of those or similar equations are used in flight dynamics models. Basically you start with conception and basic performance goals (like range, take-off distance etc.), then weight estimation, then wing area and geometry, fuselage, horizontal tail, vertical tail and so on and even up to stability of your AC you don't need any specialist software. Take a look at Corke - Design of Aircraft for example.

 

Airfoil characteristics is where you usually use specialist software right away (XFOIL, MSES, kkaero...).

 

There is a presentation of students' UAV design somewhere on the net where they show similar approach.

[EtherealN]

Actually, it's MATLAB (Matrix Laboratory). But close enough ;)

Wonderful piece of software by the way. Couldn't live without it.

 

Better than the first mispelling I got in there but thankfully noticed in time. :P

[ZaltysZ]

Second TFCSE flight dynamics models are analytical (?) and not geometrical (?) like the X-Plane FMs.

 

There is huge misconception about X-Plane. X-Plane does not do fluid dynamics simulation (it is even written in manual), instead it allows to construct aircraft from multiple parts (airfoils) and then use geometrical data to make finite wings for calculations and etc. So, you can break plane design into simpler stages (i.e. choosing airfoils for different parts) and then allow the engine to calculate the final effect. However, you can't design just 3D model and see how weird things (like meteorites) fall, glide or fly - you will need software for fluid dynamics if you want to do that.

 

P.S. I hope to see DCS: Infatry one day. :) Or even 3rd party created "flyable" human. I don't mind low details of landscape (from ground perspective), because it is better to have ugly graphics, but huge landscape and good physics.

[sobek]

There is huge misconception about X-Plane. X-Plane does not do fluid dynamics simulation (it is even written in manual), instead it allows to construct aircraft from multiple parts (airfoils) and then use geometrical data to make finite wings for calculations and etc.

 

 

I don't think there is any simulator that can do fluid dynamics in real time, it's all finite elements.

[liotczik]

I was just wondering to myself if it would be possible to use the engine to play around with say inventing a flying car. Say if I knew how to create my own models and give them some sort of power source.

 

As was said before, X-Plane is much better suited for such endeavours. Possibly you could mod some files to achieve it, but it would be like using a microscope to hammer nails.

 

Could this be done?

 

Yes, although you need some preparations. Do you want car with wings or antigravity vehicle? Do you want it to be as 'realistic' as possible or totally science fiction? Also you need to know some basic concepts of creating flying machines in general, so you know what you're doing (more or less, but still). Creating totally new construction is actually harder, than replicating an existing one, because you don't have any data to begin with.

 

Actually I've owned a flying bus for FS9, so why not? :D

 

Basically im asking if I could use the engine to study flight characteristics of anything I can think of? Could I theoretically build a virtual flying machine the world has never seen, and test it with the engine? Would it give an accurate representation of how the vehicle would perform in real life?

 

X-Plane users are known to build radio control models, out of identical X-Plane aircraft, that have demonstrated flying characteristics close to their digital protoplast. Don't expect everything to be right on the spot, but indeed you can evaluate your project that way to some, not so small, degree.

 

Sadly, X-Plane doesn't model ornithopters, apart from that you are free to experiment with anything else. Jets, props, helos, zeppelins, gliders, rockets, orbiters, biplanes, triplanes, double coaxials, assymetric... You name it.

 

Be sure to check out HPM aircraft:

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=9708

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=7527

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=6976

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=6927 !!!!

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=6365

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=5446

http://forums.x-plane.org/index.php?app=downloads&showfile=5340

 

He's the real artist when it comes to unusual custom designs.

 

Sorry, I realize this is kind of out there on the fringe, but my curiosity is genuine.

 

Curiosity is fantastic element of human nature. Don't let it rust and discover the world of aviation as much as you like :) And if someone says "curiosity killed the cat", just send them a present from me, possibly a laser guided one ;)