Tactics and advice

[Vosxod]

actualy 100 is more realistic thats why your missing shots

WRONG! It's not actually more realistic, or not-actually more realistic or in any other way more realistic. 50/50 is THE ONLY realistic setting in the game. Was, is and will be. If you dont believe - ask Eagle Dynamics ppl (so did I and got the right answer).

[Alfa]

The MiG has a smaller antenna diameter. This means that its transmitted power is spread out more in space. The Su-27 will focus more of it on the target's RWR and thus appear stronger.

 

Ahh - yes of course :icon_redf .

 

Thanks for the clarification :) .

 

- JJ.

[S77th-GOYA]

If it has the same output wattage, distributed by a smaller diameter antenna, wouldn't the beam be more intense? A laser beam as opposed to a search light? Maybe I'm thinking in terms of the wrong analogy.

 

It seems as though the receiver would see it the same unless the smaller antenna is more inefficient allowing the signal to become diffuse.

[GGTharos]

You're thinking of the wrong physics.

 

 

Summary of the law:

 

Smaller aperture=bigger dispersion angle.

 

Therefore the image is spread out more. This is also true of lasers - the smaller the aperture, the wider the dot gets with the distance...larger aperture, the more 'constant' the size of the dot. This is the same for all waves, including the ones you can make happen in the water, or in the air, which means that sound is included (essentially, any sort of vibration will obey this law)

[Olgerd]

50/50 is THE ONLY realistic setting in the game. Was, is and will be.

 

Definitely.

[Vosxod]

Su27 hands down.

Russian birds get lock and launch tone from the f-15 in HOJ the f-15 does not.

Tws is neutered due to burn through at 13nm its useless.

A mig 29 can lock a target at 40km in vertical scan mode so can the 33 and 27.

Game needs to be patched immediately just hope we don wait for 6 months like we did with 1.0

Please clarify:

1) russian gets launch tone when you shoot from F15 with what? AIM120?

2) F15 does not get tone when russian shoots what? P27ER?

[Guest ruggbutt]

1) Yes

2) IDK, someone else needs to field this one.

[GGTharos]

Vosxod, the issue appears to be the following:

 

As soon as an F-15 pilot pulls the trigger on a HoJ shot, wether with the 120 or the 7, the target gets a launch warning.

 

In the case of the 7, there should be no warning - in the case of the 120, the warning should come when the missile closes in or prefferablyw hen the jammer is shut off.

[S77th-GOYA]

From latest testing with a HOJ shot, the sparrow gives no launch warning. The 120 does. Both give lock warning. I got killed by a sparrow from a vert scan lock and launch from another 15 and never got a warning of any kind. I can't promise that the next testing won't show something different.

 

Some of these can possibly be attributed to the sound engine which is bug nuts, but some can't.

 

I've also seen a sparrow make a quick adjustment to the target after its launching 15 was destroyed.

[Vosxod]

From latest testing with a HOJ shot, the sparrow gives no launch warning. The 120 does. Both give lock warning. I got killed by a sparrow from a vert scan lock and launch from another 15 and never got a warning of any kind. I can't promise that the next testing won't show something different.

 

Some of these can possibly be attributed to the sound engine which is bug nuts, but some can't.

 

I've also seen a sparrow make a quick adjustment to the target after its launching 15 was destroyed.

I believe lock warning is result of plane's radar locking the target (or jammer source). It has nothing to do with type of rocket.

[S77th-GOYA]

I believe lock warning is result of plane's radar locking the target (or jammer source). It has nothing to do with type of rocket.

 

There is the real world, as we know it, and there is LOMAC 1.1. With a HOJ lock, the locking plane's radar isn't being used to paint the target. It is a passive lock. There should be no warning at all. LOMAC gives lock warning if the locking plane is an F-15 and no lock warning if it is any other plane.

[nunsuch]

Some aircraft(such as the Mirage 2000-5 I think) have the ability to detect missile controll datalinks maybe some Russian Jets have a function like that?

[GGTharos]

Sure, but how do you know that the datalink is guiding a missile to -you-?

[Prophet_169th]

You're thinking of the wrong physics.

 

 

Summary of the law:

 

Smaller aperture=bigger dispersion angle.

 

Therefore the image is spread out more. This is also true of lasers - the smaller the aperture, the wider the dot gets with the distance...larger aperture, the more 'constant' the size of the dot. This is the same for all waves, including the ones you can make happen in the water, or in the air, which means that sound is included (essentially, any sort of vibration will obey this law)

 

According to what we know about defraction, the wave will only defract after the aperture if the wavelength is larger than the aperture.

 

This is what is done with a double-slit experiment.

 

So what you said is close, but is very dependant on the wavelength.

 

* Edit * FYI if any wave diffracted after an aperture, photolithography (my profession) wouldnt be possible. There would be too much diffraction to make the 130/90/65 nm lines we do for microchips.

[GGTharos]

Diffraction is always there; how big the spot is in the end also depends on distance. Also the radar beam isn't particularely well collimated which I'm sure causes a whole slew of adventures ;)

[Prophet_169th]

Most of the diffraction we see in almost all wave emitters is due to side diffraction. Which in a true sense, isnt necessarily diffraction, but side 'leakage'.

 

There are also effects due to side lobes interfering with the main emission.

 

I managed to find a good side on radar cross sections and stuff. Though it doesnt have much to do with diffraction, it is still some good reading.

 

http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/absorbingradar2.cfm#phenomenology

[GGTharos]

Very nice Prophet! Rep Inbound.

[Prophet_169th]

From the first link I posted, if you go to Part 1, almost at the bottom. It shows some radar antennae examples. I believe that the aircraft use the slotted kind.

 

This will create large amounts of diffraction. Because of this, there is a large amount of positive and destructive interference. This is needed to create a more uniform wavefront, which in turn makes it easier to exploit the dopplershift of the radar reflection.

[Vosxod]

There is the real world, as we know it, and there is LOMAC 1.1. With a HOJ lock, the locking plane's radar isn't being used to paint the target. It is a passive lock. There should be no warning at all. LOMAC gives lock warning if the locking plane is an F-15 and no lock warning if it is any other plane.

It is passive lock. But how do you think your radar burns through the jammer? I think radar still sends same kind of signal as it would in lock mode. It just does not receive anything. And that is what enemy TWS registers lock on jammer. I dont know this, just thinking loud...

[Prophet_169th]

Vosxod, as a far as I have read, I think the F15 giving lock warning when locking HOJ is a bug?

 

In normal STT lock, the radar is using a reflection of the target to lock. When using ECM, the jamming aircraft is attempting to scramble or uh jam the emitting aircrafts radar signal that is returned. Its just providing lots of 'intelligent' disinformation. Distance is a big factor in this. Once the emitter gets closer, its more able to seperate the garbage jam signal from the true radar reflection. Because the radar reflection gets stronger.

 

HOJ really should just provide pre-guidance until burn-through. HOJ data is much less accurate that using the radar reflection. Or should be at least.

 

And as you stated, HOJ is passive. There should be nothing to give the jamming aircraft notice its being locked. Hence the term passive. Just like EOS.

[S77th-GOYA]

It is passive lock. But how do you think your radar burns through the jammer? I think radar still sends same kind of signal as it would in lock mode. It just does not receive anything. And that is what enemy TWS registers lock on jammer. I dont know this, just thinking loud...

 

The radar burns through just like if there was no HOJ lock. The fact that we need to turn radar on in order to see jamming strobes is a different debate unto itself. IMO, there should be a passive mode for our radars that do not emit, only receive. So, you would not have to alert the enemy of your presence by painting him in order to lock onto his jam.

The HOJ is similar to an anti-radiation missle in that it locks onto the radiation that is emitted from the target, not what is being reflected from the locking aircraft.

Remember that the F-15 TWS lock and launch gives no lock or launch warning.

[Prophet_169th]

I thought that in the F15, currently, TWS does give a launch warning before the missle goes active? I thought that was one of the bugs talked about.

 

Maybe I am just confused.

 

Anyways, this is what the RWR does. Only recieves. The radar has to be on, in order to recieve. When looking at a jamming signal, its looking at the noise, versus the reflection.

[GGTharos]

Yes, but to look at the jamming signal, it needs to paint the target in order to force it to generate a jamming signal. You may get a lock tone on your rwr from someone going HoJ on you, but you shouldn't get a launch warning.

[S77th-GOYA]

Yes, but to look at the jamming signal, it needs to paint the target in order to force it to generate a jamming signal. You may get a lock tone on your rwr from someone going HoJ on you, but you shouldn't get a launch warning.

 

Seriously, GG. From the ED LOMAC 1.1 Manual, Page 89, regarding HOJ:

 

"Attacking in such a mode provides the enemy with no warning because

a HOJ attack is a completely passive attack."

 

The 15 is the only a/c that gives a warning in HOJ. It's wrong and needs to be fixed.

 

I retract everything about radar having passive mode. There's no need to muddy the waters with things we don't have and will probably never get.

[GGTharos]

I agree with you that without the specific provision of SNIFF modes and possibly some jammer inteligence/automation selectability it should just be consistent: Either both produce lock warning, or both do not.