Dodging AAMRAAMs

[Pilotasso]

man, at least get the trouble to watch the tracks before saying something like this. Prove the missiles went backwards ( :huh: lol?) or did 90º turns.

 

I bet you are one of those who get shot down by everyone, with kill, ratio of 1:1 or worse but chose to vent on others who fly the aircraft other than your own favourite.

Edited May 25, 2010 by Pilotasso

[Teknetinium]

Onehitxbe.

You should get indication on when amraam is active on you, active means that AIM-120 is guided by its own radar. When that happens,

your radar warning in Russian plains should indicate how far the aim-120 is from you. The bars move from right to left, so when the last bar is lighted up you are about to die ;)

 

There is different stages on how you fight a missile,

1.long range

2.medium range

3.close range

 

1. 80-40km.Enough whit 45 degree offset from the bandit . Good idea is to decent and drop some chaffs.(pincer)

2. 25km. you can make same procedure as in stage 1. safer way is to go 90 degree from bandit and drop some chaff. Better idea is to make 180 degree from bandit. (notching)(extend)

3. 10 km. You have to make some Jedi moves to survive, keep the missile at your 3 or 9 and pull just before missile impact, as many Gs you have. (power of the dark side)

Edited May 25, 2010 by Teknetinium

[coolts]

[combatace]

man, at least get the trouble to watch the tracks before saying something like this. Prove the missiles went backwards ( :huh: lol?) or did 90º turns.

 

I bet you are one of those who get shot down by everyone, with kill, ratio of 1:1 or worse but chose to vent on others who fly the aircraft other than your own favourite.

 

Read the later posts I'm not talking about the present 120. By the way the present 120 do a 90 degree turn. You wanna see it than got it here for you. watch the track and look at the first 120 fired, making a turn from heading 283 to 354 is a 90 degree I guess.

Edited May 25, 2010 by combatace

[EtherealN]

Read the later posts I'm not talking about the present 120. By the way the present 120 do a 90 degree turn. You wanna see it than got it here for you. watch the track and look at the first 120 fired, making a turn from heading 283 to 354 is a 90 degree I guess.

 

Nice R-77's on those Flankers... ;)

But seriously now, you really need to check your tracks better. First missile started at ~300 degrees (co-angle with it's launch platform), then turns to 270.4, and then proceeds with only miniscule changes in direction until impact. Same situation (though different numbers) with all three other missiles.

[Pilotasso]

Read the later posts I'm not talking about the present 120. By the way the present 120 do a 90 degree turn. You wanna see it than got it here for you. watch the track and look at the first 120 fired, making a turn from heading 283 to 354 is a 90 degree I guess.

 

 

record that in ACMI and then chose telemetry of both the missile in question and its target. You will be able to see at the top screen the angle off from the missile axis. You can never judge by eye with a lockon track alone.

[GGTharos]

Do you know of any missiles that can't do 90 deg turns?

 

I mean, you turn in a direction for x seconds, you end up turning 90 degrees; so perhaps you're trying to say something else?

 

Read the later posts I'm not talking about the present 120. By the way the present 120 do a 90 degree turn. You wanna see it than got it here for you. watch the track and look at the first 120 fired, making a turn from heading 283 to 354 is a 90 degree I guess.

[combatace]

Sorry I uploaded a wrong track so removed that one and updated with the right one in the same post.

[combatace]

Do you know of any missiles that can't do 90 deg turns?

 

I mean, you turn in a direction for x seconds, you end up turning 90 degrees; so perhaps you're trying to say something else?

 

Not at all the missile was flying as if it had lost the track and got dead but then abruptly it wakes up do a 90 degree turn and heads for the target.

 

P.S. : I uploaded the right track in the same post.

[Pilotasso]

ACMI please, or burst :)

[GGTharos]

Right, as you may have guessed from my post, I'm not concerned with a missile turning 90 deg.

 

I'm more concerned about the angle from missile to you at the moment it acquired to (ie. when it first started turning). I bet it's less than 60 deg, which is the seeker gimbal limit for ARH.

 

Not at all the missile was flying as if it had lost the track and got dead but then abruptly it wakes up do a 90 degree turn and heads for the target.

 

P.S. : I uploaded the right track in the same post.

[Fahhh]

Some people just have a hard time accepting a defeat and refuse to search for their own mistakes. They proceed with blaming this and that... Watch the track then the tacview recording and you'll find out what went wrong, and not blame it on "magic" missile turns and etc. There were and probably will be times, when I felt confused as to why I died and had suspicions. But after watching the tacview recording, it always comes down to a mistake in the preparation or the execution of a certain tactical plan/ offensive or defensive manouever.

 

Even today I got killed by MoGas with an AMRAAM from a significant distance - well again it was my fault approaching the fight overconfident. The next flight I was already prepared and much more cautious, we exchanged some missiles, and safely retreated. Lesson learned, and quickly applied. My point is that you can learn from your losses much more than from your wins. You just have to try and get this knowledge from the flight recordings...

[combatace]

ACMI please, or burst :)

 

Here.

[GGTharos]

The target (Pilot #4) is within 30deg of heading from the farthest missile, well within seeker gimbal limits. This shows the missile operating as it should be.

[asparagin]

yes it was a 120 send for #3 but when it went active it went for #4. it changed the trajectory with 30° not 90°. nothing unusual. maybe only why it chose #4 and didn't go to #3.

[GGTharos]

^^^^

Because the target search algorithm is very simple; a conscan of the entire gimbal space as opposed to intertially-determined scan of a killbox.

It simply didn't pick up the target (too far?) on the center and continued to scan, and it picked up #4 first instead.

[EtherealN]

Switching target isn't unusual. It lost track, then reacquired a target and went for that one.

 

This, incidentally, is why you only fire in a direction that has friendlies if expressly asked to do so. If you lose track for even a second (or if the missile does so after pitbull) you might be killing a friendly instead after the missile "re"acquires whatever it finds.

[combatace]

^^^^

Because the target search algorithm is very simple; a conscan of the entire gimbal space as opposed to intertially-determined scan of a killbox.

It simply didn't pick up the target (too far?) on the center and continued to scan, and it picked up #4 first instead.

 

Anything real in that? I don't think so. And it has a 60 degree limit that means it has a scan zone of 120 degrees right?

Edited May 25, 2010 by combatace

[EtherealN]

More real than R-77's on an Su-27S. ;)

 

Okey, cheap shot, sorry.

The biggest difference to "real" would be that in real life the missile would have a datalink from it's launch platform giving corrections and updates, meaning it doesn't have to rely solely on it's own radar when going active.

[Pilotasso]

Nothing wrong as suspected on that track, lets move on.

[GGTharos]

Anything real in that?

 

Anything real in what? Lots of missiles use conscan, but they also use a better search process. I'll tell that FOR REAL pilots do not like shooting AMRAAMs into a place where there's friendlies.

 

I don't think so. And it has a 60 degree limit that means it has a scan zone of 120 degrees right?

Yep, 120 deg total from one side to the other.

[combatace]

Anything real in what? Lots of missiles use conscan, but they also use a better search process. I'll tell that FOR REAL pilots do not like shooting AMRAAMs into a place where there's friendlies.

 

Yep, 120 deg total from one side to the other.

 

Ya but it won't pop like this. I mean it has mid course updates and course adjustments supported by the launch platform. And there were no friendlies in there remember. Also when I posted this track in lockonfiles.com a senior member told me that it was a glitch since 1.1 and was not addressed yet.

 

And believe me what happened in that track won't happen in real life because if it is then you saw the results in the track.

[GGTharos]

Yes, there is no INS in LO/FC missiles. This is well known.

 

And yes, it won't happen in real life. Already known.