Skhval

[159th_Falcon]

May i have the normal one back plz?

 

The one in the 25T we have now just sucks, once you get within ~20km of an target area the field of view is way to narrow to effectively search for anything.

Please give us our old Skhval back. Worked perfectly.

 

Yes, i am aware of the fps hit that one gave in certain situations but having no fps hit and not being able to do anything useful whit the Skhval aint much of an improvement either, is it?

 

Now where talking about it, has the one in the black shark also been adjusted to an more narrow field of view? I think it is and i don't like it one bit.

[GGTharos]

That's how the real one is.

[159th_Falcon]

So the one in 1.12b was fake?

 

From what i hearth we are now using one that was only used for testing purposes and the 25T that's in service had the one we where using in 1.12b?

 

Quick reply though, thanks.

 

***edit***

 

And oh, forgot to mention.

Why did they give the real one such a narrow FOV? Only makes it harder to spot targets and keep Situational Awareness while looking at the Skhval for targets.

[EtherealN]

Wait, 25T in service? ;)

 

(To clarify, I think there's a handful of TM's in service, but the T-Frog was not, afaik, ever in active duty.)

Edited June 7, 2010 by EtherealN

[BKLronin]

I´m learning to handle the SU25T right now coming from the KA50.

I did´nt found anything to adjust contrast and or brightnes like in BS. DOesn´t the real one have this possibility?

[EtherealN]

Yes, the real thing can do that.

 

No, this is not implemented in FC2, afaik. Remember that FC2 trades detail for the ability to have multiple aircraft in the same product, and unfortunately that means some system behaviours has to go. (Crossref with the inflamed debate over F15C's AGP-63 radar automisation and datalink, and ability to refill droptanks when suckling a KC-10, which are also absent. :P )

[dok_rp]

I suggest you give the LLTV Pod a go. Your world will brighten up in ways you couldn't have possibly imagined. (Pun intended :smartass: )

 

It simply makes the Su25T a mean killing machine. And ground targets... hopeless victims. :gun_smilie::devil_2::gun_rifle:

[Boberro]

Wait, 25T in service? ;)

 

(To clarify, I think there's a handful of TM's in service, but the T-Frog was not, afaik, ever in active duty.)

 

Yes there were few ones IIRC, all have been modernised to TM standard (about 8).

 

I´m learning to handle the SU25T right now coming from the KA50.

I did´nt found anything to adjust contrast and or brightnes like in BS. DOesn´t the real one have this possibility?

 

When you are closer and closer possible enemy units positions glance closely in TV and do reconnaissance.

 

I suggest you give the LLTV Pod a go. Your world will brighten up in ways you couldn't have possibly imagined. (Pun intended :smartass: )

 

It simply makes the Su25T a mean killing machine. And ground targets... hopeless victims. :gun_smilie::devil_2::gun_rifle:

 

 

Yup, I didn't evaluate this pod in FC 1 too good. Now I see it is relly nice and really can help you.

[isoul]

The real Shkval on Su-25T has only two modes(zoom levels)! The Search Mode(8x Zoom) and Targeting Mode(23x Zoom).

 

The truth is that the Su-25T, given the speed it has, NEEDS to target things at a distance. Targeting at long range gives the pilot the opportunity to launch Vikhrs at max(or almost max) range, keep a lock on target from a "safe" distance while missile is in flight and, once missile hits the target, break your attack from further away.

 

The 0x Zoom doesn't help much in this. The only thing the 0xZoom is good at is locking targets at closer range. But if you target closer, till Vikhr's impact, you will get too close to the target area if not overfly it! So 0x Zoom in real life is useless, and not without a good reason, for the Russian designers.

 

Why should we, in FC2.0, have such inaccuracy once we know how the real stuff works? Personally I can do my job and I think I can do it better because I am forced to lock targets from longers range.

[159th_Falcon]

All (probably) true and all but.

Scanning for targets at long range won't work (at least for me) in the simulator.

 

Why? Cause all that is drawn on the Skhval screen is plain land, no trees, no buildings, and certainly no targets. Untill i get whitin around 25km.

So this gives me some very limited time to search, identify, line up and attack targets.

 

But seeing that adjusting the Skhval aint gonna happen, can i let the ground units be shown on the Skhval from greater distance?

[Boberro]

All (probably) true and all but.

Scanning for targets at long range won't work (at least for me) in the simulator.

 

Why? Cause all that is drawn on the Skhval screen is plain land, no trees, no buildings, and certainly no targets. Untill i get whitin around 25km.

So this gives me some very limited time to search, identify, line up and attack targets.

 

But seeing that adjusting the Skhval aint gonna happen, can i let the ground units be shown on the Skhval from greater distance?

 

Supposedly real Shkval resolution is very low. I have read long time ago it can detect bridge from 11-13 km... tank from 5...

 

25km is hell long distance... no any SHORAD can hit you. Your threat is only medium range SAMS. Also imagine what A-10 players feel... they have 1x zoom and max 2x zoom on A-10's small monitor hahahahha

Edited June 7, 2010 by Boberro

[159th_Falcon]

If you can pick up a tank from only 5km on the Skhval then why the hell bother giving Vkhrs a range of 9km? better have spended the weight of the fuel for a bigger warhead so you would only need 1 instead of 2-3 for an MBT.

 

To be honest i find it very hard to believe RL Skhval resolution would be that bad. Make's it just about useless for anything.........

[BKLronin]

FC2 trades detail for the ability to have multiple aircraft

 

I´m ok with that. Flying the frog for about 3 days now and I love those advanced sensors rdwr flir and SPEEEED :D

 

THe SU25 T is good enough simulated I can feel the heaviness of the machine that most important. A clickable cockpit would be great anyway. DCS: SU25TM not necessary but a 3D Cockpit upgrade, hmmm

 

I had huge problem with speed towards targets but as I´m getting better I adjust my Shark tactics to it more and more. At the moment I only got problems to identify the type of target from that angle of attack and in that short period of time. Lot more time with the shark there you could paint a nice picture of the target zone.

 

It´s like an eagle attack versus a sneaking snake.

 

But I like the alternation after all this choppering action.

 

GREAT machine!

 

(DOn´t like the A10 o much becaue it feels like a RC model plane :D )

[Boberro]

If you can pick up a tank from only 5km on the Skhval then why the hell bother giving Vkhrs a range of 9km? better have spended the weight of the fuel for a bigger warhead so you would only need 1 instead of 2-3 for an MBT.

 

To be honest i find it very hard to believe RL Skhval resolution would be that bad. Make's it just about useless for anything.........

 

 

IIRC next version of Shkval for Su-25TM had something it could lock on given coordinates.

 

I am not sure about ranges, however i doubt if tank can be visible from 25 km.

[GGTharos]

The shkval uses a 320x200 pixel TV for display, and the sensor isn't any better IIRC. That's what the technology was back then, so that's what you get. That's all there is to it.

 

If you can pick up a tank from only 5km on the Skhval then why the hell bother giving Vkhrs a range of 9km? better have spended the weight of the fuel for a bigger warhead so you would only need 1 instead of 2-3 for an MBT.

 

To be honest i find it very hard to believe RL Skhval resolution would be that bad. Make's it just about useless for anything.........

[GGTharos]

The one in BS has it. You don't need the TM's.

 

IIRC next version of Shkval for Su-25TM had something it could lock on given coordinates.

 

I am not sure about ranges, however i doubt if tank can be visible from 25 km.

[Boberro]

The shkval uses a 320x200 pixel TV for display, and the sensor isn't any better IIRC. That's what the technology was back then, so that's what you get. That's all there is to it.

 

 

So my N95 has better resolution :P

 

 

Anyway you can do simply test then. Get your phone, take a picture in example MMS format then resize it to real Shkval TV size... don't remember what dimensions real TV set has there. Then you see more - less how can it looks like.

 

EDIT:

 

I am curious.... it is said Ka-50 and Su-25T use this same Shkval model. So if Su-25T's Shkval has 320x200 how can Ka-50's Shkval render so good image on its TV then ?

 

Either ED has made mistake giving so high resolution for TV screens and it needs to be lowered to 320x200 or real Shkval used in Ka-50 and Su-25T are different models where supposedly Su-25T has 320x200 image and Ka-50 higher resolution or maybe third answer both Shkval has really BS render capabilities then we cannot say Su-25T has only 320x200..:huh::confused:

Edited June 7, 2010 by Boberro

[dok_rp]

If you can pick up a tank from only 5km on the Skhval then why the hell bother giving Vkhrs a range of 9km? better have spended the weight of the fuel for a bigger warhead so you would only need 1 instead of 2-3 for an MBT.

 

To be honest i find it very hard to believe RL Skhval resolution would be that bad. Make's it just about useless for anything.........

 

 

Hello Falcon,

 

I don't know if it has anything to do with the fact that I run graphics at max expect for water that is set to medium, but targets appear in the Shkval at ranges beyond 10km to me. Heck, most of the times, after knowing where the pinpointed target location is I lock onto the ground and I have to wait a good deal until the targeting gate detects the target and locks onto it. And long before that I am able to spot the target. Of course that I'll be using the 23x magnification.

 

So, my best guess is that you relying too much on the Shkval itself to do are reconnaissance for you, when you should actually have a very good general direction of target positioning to just scan a smaller piece of terrain, locate the target at about 20km, fire, boom, and get the hell out of there.

 

Still on the matter at hand, I can't stress this enough. If the target area is unknown to you, and you'll be doing recon flights, take the Low Light TV Pod. It has IR imaging and will give and incredible advantage at spotting targets, at the same level of the Maverick D, with the exception that the LLTV Pod will stay there after you fire your missiles. :thumbup:

 

Best of luck. :pilotfly:

[Boberro]

Also Merkurij has 5x zoom not only 2 :D

[isoul]

If you can pick up a tank from only 5km on the Skhval then why the hell bother giving Vkhrs a range of 9km? better have spended the weight of the fuel for a bigger warhead so you would only need 1 instead of 2-3 for an MBT.

 

To be honest i find it very hard to believe RL Skhval resolution would be that bad. Make's it just about useless for anything.........

 

Actually I remember myself having locked a target with Shkval beyond Vikhr's max range. The transparency of objects at range, IMHO, simulates quite well the low visibility conditions in the atmosphere! (You can change that by tweaking for_param1 and fog_param2 in ...\CONFIG\graphics.cfg but then it may seem a bit unrealistic.)

 

The Shkval display resolution in RL shouldn't be high! Its not designed for a photography contest after all! Have you ever see any video footage? Check this (at 0:44) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPfahDdIjgk.

 

Apart from this keep in mind that, even with a good resolution display, atmospheric conditions affect the quality of the image and spotting targets like tanks, that are usually camouflaged, is quite hard.

[dok_rp]

Just did a little test. I've set up a group of 10 Bradleys 50km away from me and flew level at 2000m observing when they would appear in the Shkval. Later did the same test using the Mercury.

 

In the Shkval and the Mercury the targets get equally drawn at around 14nm (about 25km away). Using the Shkval they are a little, let's say, transparent up until around 12nm when they turn solid and are much easier to spot.

 

What is interesting is that I thought they would appear further away in the Mercury, but I guess the deal here is a game engine limitation so objects get drawn at the same distance no matter what?

 

Very interesting, though. :thumbup:

Edited June 7, 2010 by dok_rp

[Boberro]

In real life Merkurij is crap. It was said it is good only for navigation, its combat effectivity is low - this was on of the reason why it hasn't been mounted on Ka-50 (next to its weight).

 

IIRC target spot on Merkurij was about 3 km...

[Boberro]

I have found Shkval picture:

 

Distance is 1.1 km angle of attack, height suggest it is helicopter.