Study guide for FC 2 BFM

[shackman]

Does anybody think that this might be good book to learn tactics from to employ in FC2

 

http://www.amazon.com/Fighter-Combat-Tactics-Maneuvering-New/dp/0870210599/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

[Nate--IRL--]

That's pretty much the Fighter Pilot Bible, and yes the tactics do work in LO too. You just need a squad to fly in, to do it right.

 

Nate

[shackman]

That's pretty much the Fighter Pilot Bible, and yes the tactics do work in LO too. You just need a squad to fly in, to do it right.

 

Nate

You're saying the AI doesn't act well enough or what? I haven't found an open squad yet, the 104th isn't recruiting.

[Nate--IRL--]

1v1 Lock On has probably the best AI in a Dogfight (in fact this is where LO shines IMHO). 1v1 BVR it is pretty good too. But for 2v2 or even 4v4 scenarios you will really have to work your wingmen to get full advantage from them.

 

The AI is good and the tactics do work but ideally you'd want human wingmen as AI wingmen are a bit thick and difficult to co-ordinate.

 

The AI is good, but will never compare to a Human opponent

 

Nate

Edited June 24, 2010 by Nate--IRL--

[shackman]

1v1 Lock On has probably the best AI in a Dogfight (in fact this is where LO shines IMHO). 1v1 BVR it is pretty good too. But for 2v2 or even 4v4 scenarios you will really have to work your wingmen to get full advantage from them.

 

The AI is good and the tactics do work but ideally you'd want human wingmen as AI wingmen are a bit thick and difficult to co-ordinate.

 

Nate

So the AI in FC2 is the same as in LO? you know of any open squadron recruiting right now?

[Nate--IRL--]

So the AI in FC2 is the same as in LO? you know of any open squadron recruiting right now?

 

FC2 has had a good few tweaks to the AI as far as I know, the AI is much more likely to try to notch missiles for example.

 

Don't know of any squads that are open, but I'm sure there are, you'll just have to ask around I'm afraid.

 

Nate

[shackman]

FC2 has had a good few tweaks to the AI as far as I know, the AI is much more likely to try to notch missiles for example.

 

Don't know of any squads that are open, but I'm sure there are, you'll just have to ask around I'm afraid.

 

Nate

Well thanks Nate for the help. great to hear that the AI has been tweaked and given a little more brains to help you out. I read that in FC2 you can actually split a flight of 4 into pairs. 2 take left and the other 2 take right. That'd help a lot in taking on multiple bogeys.

 

And I have finally realized instead continually dying in LO why not just read about ACM and BFM to get a better knowledge and understand what to do in a situation.:thumbup:

 

Just out of curiosity have you read it or something similar to it Nate?

Edited June 24, 2010 by shackman

[Nate--IRL--]

I've read it, lent it to somebody and have yet to get it back :(

 

Basic BFM have been explained in many books (even game manuals) But there is much more depth to Shaw's book. Bear in mind it is a text book, so it is something you study rather than read, if that makes sense.

 

Nate

[JimMack]

That's pretty much the Fighter Pilot Bible, and yes the tactics do work in LO too. You just need a squad to fly in, to do it right.

 

Nate

 

Agreed - Fighter Combat is the bible, not just for Sim pilots, but real pilots!

[Fahhh]

The book is definitely a 'must read' for everyone that wants to become more proficient in combat flying. One more thing, there was a thread on these forums with links and descriptions of the various online squads, search for it, and maybe you'll find yourself a squad that is flying your preferred plane type and is recruiting.

[GGTharos]

'Fighter Combat' is indeed the bible, but also a very dry read. Not only that, but you're just NOT going to learn from a few pictures and a bunch of paragraphs. The real trick is translating the knowledge he gives you into application, and in my experience people have found this difficult to do.

 

The very first thing you should practice is recognizing the visual cues he describes; nevermind the maneuvers themselves: Without the visual cues, your maneuvers may as well be for an air-show.

 

There are other things that are left un-said: Technique is not treated in many cases. IIRC, he doesn't tell you how to take an offset when flying the more maneuverable plane (flanker players for example should be trying to take an offset, but most people just point the nose straight at you. Inefficient BFM). Simple things like the most efficient way to turn around is also not treated (No, IT IS NOT a Split-S), IIRC.

 

So while Shaw's book contains a LOT of information and a LOT of examples, it is still up to you to interpret and practice.

[Scudslaker]

'Fighter Combat' is indeed the bible, but also a very dry read. Not only that, but you're just NOT going to learn from a few pictures and a bunch of paragraphs. The real trick is translating the knowledge he gives you into application, and in my experience people have found this difficult to do.

 

The very first thing you should practice is recognizing the visual cues he describes; nevermind the maneuvers themselves: Without the visual cues, your maneuvers may as well be for an air-show.

 

There are other things that are left un-said: Technique is not treated in many cases. IIRC, he doesn't tell you how to take an offset when flying the more maneuverable plane (flanker players for example should be trying to take an offset, but most people just point the nose straight at you. Inefficient BFM). Simple things like the most efficient way to turn around is also not treated (No, IT IS NOT a Split-S), IIRC.

 

So while Shaw's book contains a LOT of information and a LOT of examples, it is still up to you to interpret and practice.

 

 

indeed this is true, the most important help is to fly hours and hours, for the best result online, offcourse combined with TACVIEW- ACMI to isolate done mistakes in past flights..for me it s the most efficent way to understand BFM!)

 

 

cheers

Scud

[GGTharos]

You're exactly right, Scud.

 

Having someone who knows half of what they're doing to train with doesn't hurt either. The AI has a lot of limitations.

[EtherealN]

Also, having a human instructor helps with one further thing: it's often easier for a knowledgeable instructor to notice what you need to train more on than it is for you yourself to drop enough ego to critique yourself effectively.

 

NINJAEDIT: And besides - few things are as satisfying as getting those first fair-and-square BFM kills on your instructor, even if they might be few and far between. :P

[shackman]

Also, having a human instructor helps with one further thing: it's often easier for a knowledgeable instructor to notice what you need to train more on than it is for you yourself to drop enough ego to critique yourself effectively.

 

NINJAEDIT: And besides - few things are as satisfying as getting those first fair-and-square BFM kills on your instructor, even if they might be few and far between. :P

That's what I trying to find is a squadron online, but can't find one anywhere recruiting. Plus most haven't been updated since either 04 or 08.

[EtherealN]

That's what I trying to find is a squadron online, but can't find one anywhere recruiting. Plus most haven't been updated since either 04 or 08.

 

Websites aren't always the most active - my suggestion would be to go up online and use the server's Ventrilo/Teamspeak and just talk to people while flying. If you're lucky you can find someone that wants to coach you a bit for the company. :)

[shackman]

Websites aren't always the most active - my suggestion would be to go up online and use the server's Ventrilo/Teamspeak and just talk to people while flying. If you're lucky you can find someone that wants to coach you a bit for the company. :)

Hadn't thought of that thanks EtherealN.

[Udat]

few things are as satisfying as getting those first fair-and-square BFM kills on your instructor, even if they might be few and far between. :P

This is so true!

Me and Flankerator flew 1 vs 1 BRV almost every evening for weeks on end. Extremely rewarding.

[636_Castle]

Wow I just picked this up. Good reading so far. But IMO F4 has better dogfight AI logic than LO. F4 is wayyyy harder it seems.

[GGTharos]

Harder doesn't mean better; but in this case F4's AI probably does a bit better.

 

Wow I just picked this up. Good reading so far. But IMO F4 has better dogfight AI logic than LO. F4 is wayyyy harder it seems.