4 v 4 furball, how to approach it

[thaFunkster]

I am playing through the FC2 f15 campaign. I am up to a mission that I am having a lot of trouble with, I think it is mission 9.

 

SPOILER WARNING:

 

You have to take off as part of a four ship flight, then you meet up with 4 su25s and four a10s and escort them over the border to attack a chopper base.

 

You engage a four ship Flanker flight, then after a while a second flight of Flankers is inbound.

 

The problem is, I never survive the first fight in a fit enough condition to last through the second one, and often I dont even survive the first one at all.

 

Originally, I would approach the fight by telling my wingman to engage bandits, then I would bug two bandits, and fire Aim 120s on them, before doing a split-s to evade their missiles.

 

Then I turn back in and try to figure out what the hell is going on before they launch on me again, which they almost always do.

 

Lately I have been having better luck by pressing once they launch, and using the barrel roll maneauvre to evade their missiles, it seems quite succesful.

 

But the problem is once I get into the fight, and the bandits are at short to medium range (10-20 Miles), then I have trouble seeing them on radar, as you have to constantly scan up and down, and there is no time to do so before you are ontop of them.

 

Usually, I just get missile warnings and try to figure out where the hell they came from, that is my usual method of detacting enemies, not a very safe one!

 

Essentially, I have no Situational Awareness at short to medium range, and I keep getting creamed.

 

Any tips from the pros?

 

---

 

EDIT:I keep getting this message after I die "You have commited fracticide, you have lost all of your combat scores."

 

What's that about?

Edited July 10, 2010 by thaFunkster

[JLZ]

EDIT:I keep getting this message after I die "You have commited fracticide, you have lost all of your combat scores."

 

What's that about?

 

 

I'll comment on this one. Message you receive means: You killed friendly.

[thaFunkster]

Doh!

[Mugenjin]

When they're 15nm inbound don't bother with RWS/TWS. Switch to a CAC mode.

[winz]

Try to assign targets to wingman manually and keep one in 'cover me' during the beginning of fight, he will then attack the one bandit targeting you.

Using 'engage bandits' ended in catastrophic disaster for me most of the time.

Manually assigning or 'go task and rejoin' have allwayes yielded better ressults.

 

And try to avoid split S if possible, rather try to proper notch the missile, you'll be able to re-engage much faster.

[thaFunkster]

Mugenjin I try switching to vertical scan mode, but they are often too far to be locked up...yet too close to get with RWS/TWS mode.

 

winz, thanks for the advice, that's good I will try manually assigning and then getting one to cover me....

 

Its hard to notch when you are the leader, because you usually end up with about 4 missiles inbound at first contact.

 

---

 

I am on about the 20th or so attempt at this mission, but I still enjoy it as I dont know how it will turn out everytime I approach it.

Edited July 12, 2010 by thaFunkster

[Scudslaker]

one time again, the key to get situational awareness is to practice, practice and to prqactice'!)

 

but to be honest, i have same problems sometimes, that i cannot lock close or medium inbound enemies..so i have to practice on that too!)

[Exorcet]

My strategy for 2+ v 4:

 

-Formation Line Abreast always

-Tell 3 and 4 to pincer right, you and 2 go left. This will divide your enemy. Getting 2 simultaneous TWS kills is easier on 2 targets than on 4.

-When possible, manually tell wingman to engage instead of letting them decide.

-If the enemy is getting too close, run when AMRAAM goes active to increase distance, but makes sure you turn back to fire on them before they fire on you.

[thaFunkster]

The split would be a good idea, the problem with this mission is that there is no time to rezendevous with your wingman before the strikers get in range of the interceptors.

 

That is, you are very lucky if you have all three wingman alongside you by the time you have to engage to prevent your strikers being shot down.

 

An annoying oversight by the programmers imo...Irl there would be time enough for everyone to form up before moving onto target.

[Udat]

How about flood mode?

[GGTharos]

Really? That almost sounds like an oversight by the one planning the strike.

 

Irl there would be time enough for everyone to form up before moving onto target.

[GGTharos]

That is a visual sparrow attack mode and it isn't implemented correctly.

In RL, if you launch a sparrow without STT lock, the radar will automatically go to FLOOD mode ... it is meant for quick visual engagements.

 

How about flood mode?

[Udat]

Yeah, sorry, I meant to say Flood/Visual modes (Aim-7/Aim-120 respectively) for those pesky bandits between cac aquisition range and easy bvr mode radar find. If he knows where they are, and that there are no wingmen in front, it might be an idea?

[GGTharos]

No, those are spcifically for cases where you cannot get your radar to work due to lack of time or malfunctioning radar etc. They are NOT excuses to maddog missiles, and indeed, especially in FC2, good luck maddogging a missile at a plane you cannot see.

 

They are not normally used. You need to grab a plane within 10nm? Use one of the AACQ modes (CAC is the Russian version which, by the way, works at half the distance of AACQ modes).

 

While theyse are not necessarily perfectly modeled (in particular, the supersearch in the F-15 is sorely missing, and GACQ is relatively poor), they are your basic means of acquiring targets within 10nm.

 

GOt targets beyond 10nm? Sorry, you should have kept better track. Use RWS/TWS ... and to help you with this task, get Yoda's ERI, which adds some very basic functionality to the eagle's radar to help you with those pesky banditos.

[Udat]

Rgr, good to know. I use bvr mode 99,99% of the time when I fly the eagle, so I the need have kind of never arisen. Better to extend or beam, then reengage for more bvr shots then getting anywhere close to a merge if you ask me. If so happens, though, I always use vertical scan AACQ mode.

[thaFunkster]

Yeah I use vertical scan too....But you still have to more or less have a visual on your target in order to lock them up, otherwise you are pointing your nose every which way and rolling around trying to find someone to lock up.....

 

...Seems there is no easy answer for engaging bandits within 10-15nm, when you are not sure of their exact location.

[Udat]

Well, do as GG hinted at and try to set up your attack differently.

[thaFunkster]

But you have to close at some point

Otherwise you will leave your wingmen all on their own in the fight

[Udat]

Tell them to stay on your wing until you are hight and fast and have good separation, then tell 2 of them to pincer or flank, while you start engagement. To be honest I haven't tried this mission myself (or any fc 2.0 mission for that matter..) So I really don't have a clue. What I do know is that you should try to avoid a merge; use the advantage of the ARH missiles if you can.