How do they work (Russian aircraft)

[nscode]

I guess.. You can't just use air. Too much water in it. It's ok for brake systems in a truck, but in an aircraft it's too messy. So, you need some pure gas, and nitrogen is nice and stable, not explosive like pure oxygen.

[mvsgas]

But I don't get it why they're using Nitrogen...

 

Note: If you're using Win7, you can use your calculator to convert pressure, lentgh... units (win-key+r, type calc and hit enter, switch it to "scientific" via the view menu)

 

nscode Hit the nail on the head.

and nitrogen is nice and stable, not explosive like pure oxygen.

It is non flammable

Thanks for the tip on how to convert pressure.

 

... but you need a closed circuit with a tank when you're using oil.

What you you mean by close circuit? Not sure if I understand

Edited August 21, 2010 by mvsgas

[mig29movt]

Well, you can release air or nitrogen wherever you want to... but try dump some hydro liquid (very hot oil at 190Mpa) if you have a problem. Gas may damage your ear or so, but imagine a stream of boiling oil coming against you :helpsmilie:

 

If you have some sort of malfunction (e.g. overpressure inside canopy opening sys) then you can just let of some gas over a valve, at least that's how it's handled in "normal" engineering, so hydraulics are not used until you really need high forces, which are to big to handle by pneumatics.

[mvsgas]

Well, you can release air or nitrogen wherever you want to... but try dump some hydro liquid (very hot oil at 190Mpa) if you have a problem. Gas may damage your ear or so, but imagine a stream of boiling oil coming against you :helpsmilie:

 

If you have some sort of malfunction (e.g. overpressure inside canopy opening sys) then you can just let of some gas over a valve, at least that's how it's handled in "normal" engineering, so hydraulics are not used until you really need high forces, which are to big to handle by pneumatics.

 

I don't have imagine, it is not fun to be covered in hot burning Hydraulic fluid.

The reason I ask for clarification, hydraulic system I have work with, use valves to correct over-pressurization. Also, the reservoir and accumulator help. But the systems will vent overboard if pressure get to high ( for example, during long periods of operation when Hydraulic fluid/oil is hot and system may have been service a bit to high. Or during a surge from a pump or check valve malfunction etc.)

 

Hope this makes sense, I'm not very good at expressing myself.

[mvsgas]

One thing I should add about pneumatic systems;

Pnematic systems at 3000 psi can hurt you also, small enough hole can actually cut skin, experience it while trying to identify a leak.

Not necessarily less complicated. It depends if they use compress air or nitrogen, if the systems are self-generating or they have to be serviced every time, ect.

 

If you have to serviced them, you need equipment t produce it and store it and ways to serviced the aircraft. Also is harder to identify gas leaks and lines have smaller tolerances ( I mean their more likely to leak, just my two cents)

Edited August 21, 2010 by mvsgas

[mvsgas]

It was fun while it lasted. Thanks for the info guys. Very appreciated :thumbup:

[JLZ]

Well, if you (or any1 else) have further questions - just ask :)

 

I'll be glad to answer (if I know or I can find info).

There is always chance that some questions will remain unanswered.

 

I'm sure that some users are experts for Russian aviation.

We need to find a way to attract their attention and keep topic alive. Maybe to start posting photos of busty girls?

[mvsgas]

lol

Thanks

[mig29movt]

Just received this: http://shop.wingstv.ru/product/wings-of-russia-box-set/

:wub:

 

It contains a lot information about the Russian aviation history.

 

I'll see...

 

(I will beginn with the last DVD: Reconaissance Planes)

[JLZ]

Nice!

 

Enjoy :)

[mvsgas]

Just received this: http://shop.wingstv.ru/product/wings-of-russia-box-set/

:wub:

 

It contains a lot information about the Russian aviation history.

 

I'll see...

 

(I will beginn with the last DVD: Reconaissance Planes)

Cool let me know if it is worth it

[mvsgas]

Namenlos Ein posted this on the photo/video thread

 

Check this out, the gear box or on top of the engines, looks crazy

 

Look like an Air turbine starter in the middle with exhaust pointed up

The torque shaft, which I assume connects the engine with the airframe mounted gear box

I bet if you drop a screw or bolt while removing/installing that thing you would never find it

[nscode]

use a magnet... on a stiick :D

Edited September 3, 2010 by nscode

[Mikoyan89]

Namenlos Ein posted this on the photo/video thread

 

Check this out, the gear box or on top of the engines, looks crazy....

 

.....Look like an Air turbine starter in the middle with exhaust pointed up

The torque shaft, which I assume connects the engine with the airframe mounted gear box

 

I'm not an expert so i would understand why the air turbine starter should have an exhaust..For what i understand and studied at school the air turbine starter should receive compressed air from the APU and then rotates a gear interconnected with the engine compressor,IIRC,so since it's compressed air i don't see the need of an exhaust(hope i didn't say bull**its:D)

[mvsgas]

I'm not an expert so i would understand why the air turbine starter should have an exhaust..For what i understand and studied at school the air turbine starter should receive compressed air from the APU and then rotates a gear interconnected with the engine compressor,IIRC,so since it's compressed air i don't see the need of an exhaust(hope i didn't say bull**its:D)

Well , I have not Idea how it work on SU-27, I'm completely guessing, I don't even know if that is in fact an ATS, just what it look like to me. On an aircraft I have work with ATS, the ATS does receive air from APU, but is not a close system. So air is compress and sent to the ATS but there is not need to recycle the air, so is ported out through an exhaust. Even most environmental control on aircraft are not close systems. On most aircraft you will see openings facing aft or flush with the skin, those, some times, are vents for systems like this. For example look at photos of and F-16 ( any block) in front of the left main landing gear, there is one of this vents. The block 60 has several more very easy to notice.

 

http://www.leezpics.com/trips/images/D20057-2041.jpg

Edited September 3, 2010 by mvsgas

[Mikoyan89]

:)Thanx for the great explanation!!

[mvsgas]

:)Thanx for the great explanation!!

 

Your welcome

[robmlufc]

Well , I have not Idea how it work on SU-27, I'm completely guessing, I don't even know if that is in fact an ATS, just what it look like to me. On an aircraft I have work with ATS, the ATS does receive air from APU, but is not a close system. So air is compress and sent to the ATS but there is not need to recycle the air, so is ported out through an exhaust. Even most environmental control on aircraft are not close systems. On most aircraft you will see openings facing aft or flush with the skin, those, some times, are vents for systems like this. For example look at photos of and F-16 ( any block) in front of the left main landing gear, there is one of this vents. The block 60 has several more very easy to notice.

 

]

 

I can only comment on aircraft ive worked on(western stuff), but sometimes the APU and GTS (Gas Turbine Starter) come as one unit and you can only run in one mode at a time. If you start the APU first(for basic electrical systems) you can translate to GTS mode once your ready to start the main engine. Or you can just start straight into GTS mode. Its all run off of one unit so no need to transfer air, the unit in the pic with the exhaust looks just what im used to. I have some good system diagrams of GTS/APUs somewhere i can scan in.

 

http://www.everettaero.com/lucas.html

[mvsgas]

I can only comment on aircraft ive worked on(western stuff), but sometimes the APU and GTS (Gas Turbine Starter) come as one unit and you can only run in one mode at a time. If you start the APU first(for basic electrical systems) you can translate to GTS mode once your ready to start the main engine. Or you can just start straight into GTS mode. Its all run off of one unit so no need to transfer air, the unit in the pic with the exhaust looks just what im used to. I have some good system diagrams of GTS/APUs somewhere i can scan in.

 

http://www.everettaero.com/lucas.html

Cool, so that could actually be the APU exhaust? Where is the air intake on that system? I think that is what you meant ( please correct me if I'm wrong).

The reason I thought that it could be an ATS is because on some photos it looks to me like there is another vent on the other engine, one per engine, and it did not seem practical to have one APU per engine, but I do not work the thing maybe it is set up like that

 

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/1/3/8/1610831.jpg

 

Cool thanks, never seen a system like that on fighters. What aircraft have you work on before?

I only work on F-16 and F-117 and very limited time on A-10, F-18, F-15, T-38, F-4. I mean limited, mostly I just help recover/ park them or help them get started.

Edited September 4, 2010 by mvsgas

[mvsgas]

Does anyone have cutout drawing on the SU-27/MIG-29. I think I saw some on the photos/videos thread but now I can't find them...

[JLZ]

Of engine?

 

http://ralphmirebs.livejournal.com/86498.html#cutid1

[mvsgas]

Something like this for the SU-27

[mvsgas]

Ah ha! there one for the 35, still looking for 27

[mvsgas]

http://www.mycity-military.com/Ostalo/Preseci-i-shematski-prikazi-vojne-tehnike_2.html

Looks like the APU is in the middle, I got to see if I can find photos of the APU intake/ exhaust

Edited September 4, 2010 by mvsgas

[mvsgas]

God I got to stay on one topic more than 5 seconds :D

Looking for photos of the SU-27, I notice this photo of the SU-35. See the rudders deflected outboard? Does the SU-35 have a conventional speed brake like the SU-27 or does it use the same system as the F-22?