Kh-25 premature detonations and other notes

[nscode]

Does the Kh-25 have some actual limitation IRL that keeps it from being fired down low?

 

It most certainly does. If you look at the manual, even the gun has a minimum safe altitude and below that firing is prohibited.

Edited September 21, 2010 by nscode

[159th_Viper]

Note in the track how the seeker head for the Kh-25 becomes completely uncontrollable and keeps slowly drifing to the right. Even after resetting the weapons system, the Kh-25 seeker kept jumping back to a spot where it thought it was seeing laser energy........

 

 

You are confusing the Missile Launch Zone Reticle with the 25ML 'seeker'. The 25ML seeker will not be represented on the HUD and only actively seeks reflected laser energy well after launch. The issue therefore seems to be with the WCS/MLZ Reticle.

 

Have you experienced a similar situation with Vikhrs (the system modelled and represented) from recommended Launch parameters (10m+ AGL) and does the issue persist? In order to further conform to 'realistic' launch parameters insofar as the Karen is concerned, minimum launch altitude is 50m+ AGL. As you have previously stated, the inclusion of the Karen is indeed an 'extra bonus/easter-egg'. This does not however negate the fact that it could have been modelled to accord insofar as reasonably possible with 'realistic launch parameters' as stated above. Accordingly, any 'bug/untoward behaviour' reports must substantiated by adhering to the correct launch parameters, ie launch them at 50m+ AGL. If they still do not work, then submit a query. Launching at sub-50m AGL....Cannot complain if things go Pear-Shaped.

 

Be that as it may, as said the issue seems to be with the targeting system and definitely has nothing to do with the AS-10. Whether the issue is a Bug cannot be addressed as the test as per the attached track is fatally flawed.

[Speed]

Be that as it may, as said the issue seems to be with the targeting system and definitely has nothing to do with the AS-10. Whether the issue is a Bug cannot be addressed as the test as per the attached track is fatally flawed.

 

I told you already. This can happen at any altitude. I had a time where this happened at like 300 meters. It's rare, completely unreproducable, and independent of altitude. Furthermore, it is unbelievable that you would deny that the missile reticle being stuck to a certain point is a bug NO MATTER what altitude you are at. You are fixating on a specific, unrelated issue (altitude) to excuse bugs in the game. The targeting should have NOTHING to do with altitude, and if it does, that's a bug in itself.

 

Have you experienced a similar situation with Vikhrs (the system modelled and represented) from recommended Launch parameters (10m+ AGL) and does the issue persist?

 

I have not ever experienced a similar issue with the Vikhrs. The bug seems to be only with the Kh-25. However, based on the other time this happened to me, where it happened to me WELL over 50 meters in altitude, I would say that this would persist no matter what altitude I was at.

 

In order to further conform to 'realistic' launch parameters insofar as the Karen is concerned, minimum launch altitude is 50m+ AGL. As you have previously stated, the inclusion of the Karen is indeed an 'extra bonus/easter-egg'. This does not however negate the fact that it could have been modelled to accord insofar as reasonably possible with 'realistic launch parameters' as stated above. Accordingly, any 'bug/untoward behaviour' reports must substantiated by adhering to the correct launch parameters, ie launch them at 50m+ AGL. If they still do not work, then submit a query. Launching at sub-50m AGL....Cannot complain if things go Pear-Shaped.

Again, I have noticed this happening another time at well over 50 meters. The track is buried deep in my harddrive and is not worth spending hours to find. Furthermore, this is a targetting issue. This kind of thing SHOULD be independent of altitude anyway. If it wasn't, it would be a bug. What if say, you wanted to lock up your target at 10 meters, pop up to 50, and drop down as quickly as possible? Then EVEN IF this bug was dependent on altitude, it would prevent you from using your missile as recommended.

 

You are confusing the Missile Launch Zone Reticle with the 25ML 'seeker'. The 25ML seeker will not be represented on the HUD and only actively seeks reflected laser energy well after launch. The issue therefore seems to be with the WCS/MLZ Reticle.

But the position of the reticle represents data received from the missile seeker head- how do I know for sure? Because it will jump to the spot where your WINGMAN is lasing. So when you see the reticle jump to a spot, that means the seeker head is telling you that it is seeing laser energy there. So the behavior is similar enough to something like an AIM-9 that it is convenient for me to tell people the symbol is the "seeker head", especially when training ex-Falcon 4 pilots familiar with the AIM-9.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Speed

[nscode]

But the position of the reticle represents data received from the missile seeker head- how do I know for sure?

 

It doesn't. It represents data from the aircrafts targeting computer. You know that the seeker has locked on becouse it comunicates with the aircraft, and you get LA.

[Speed]

If I told you the sky was blue, would you disagree and say the sky was blue? That's what you did here. Perhaps you misunderstood what I was saying.

 

But the position of the reticle represents data received from the missile seeker head- how do I know for sure? Because it will jump to the spot where your WINGMAN is lasing.

 

It doesn't. It represents data from the aircrafts targeting computer. You know that the seeker has locked on becouse it comunicates with the aircraft, and you get LA.

 

 

Note the two bolded statements. I would suggest you re-read my first and your second, then consider the following: the reticle JUMPS THE THE POSITION ON THE GROUND THAT YOUR WINGMAN IS LASING. It will also FOLLOW the wingman's laser spot if he is slewing it around. FUTHERMORE, the skhval can be CAGED and the reticle will STILL follow your wingman's laser spot on the ground. So again I say that the position of the reticle represents data received from the missile seeker head.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Speed

[159th_Viper]

....So again I say that the position of the reticle represents data received from the missile seeker head.

 

Wrong ;)

 

The 25ML missile seeker does not (note the bolded statements), I repeat, does not communicate/send/transmit any data to the aircraft/targeting computer.

 

To qualify what nscode said, you obtain LA because the range/aircraft parameters are such that, if the missile is launched, it will have enough momentum to reach the vicinity of the target, pick up the reflected laser energy, and only after picking up the laser energy being reflected, guide onto the target to impact. The seeker has buggerall to do with the MLZR.

 

 

 

....Furthermore, it is unbelievable that you would deny that the missile reticle being stuck to a certain point is a bug NO MATTER what altitude you are at. You are fixating on a specific, unrelated issue (altitude) to excuse bugs in the game.....

 

 

Trust me, no more unbelievable than your apparent lack of Comprehension - Outstanding!

 

I'll say it again: I am of the opinion that the issue that exists relates to the WCS/Targeting system. I'll repeat - I admit that there is an issue. Where have I denied that a bug/issue exists?

 

Now if you want the issue to be properly addressed, be prepared to substantiate your argument and post a track which exhibits the behaviour whilst maintaining proper launch parameters, ie above 50m AGL etc etc. Until then, I bid thee adieu.

[Speed]

Wrong ;)

 

The 25ML missile seeker does not (note the bolded statements), I repeat, does not communicate/send/transmit any data to the aircraft/targeting computer.

 

To qualify what nscode said, you obtain LA because the range/aircraft parameters are such that, if the missile is launched, it will have enough momentum to reach the vicinity of the target, pick up the reflected laser energy, and only after picking up the laser energy being reflected, guide onto the target to impact. The seeker has buggerall to do with the MLZR.

 

Then how can you possibly explain how the missile reticle follows your wingman's laser spot when your skhval is CAGED? Unless there is some system that works even when the skhval is caged that is capable of detecting laser spots and returning precise azimuth and altitude angular data for them, the only source of this is the missile seeker head.

 

Is it a case of, the missile doesn't communicate IRL but in the sim it does?

 

Trust me, no more unbelievable than your apparent lack of Comprehension - Outstanding!

 

THEN EXPLAIN what I ask above, this is what is causing my "lack of comprehension".

 

Now if you want the issue to be properly addressed, be prepared to substantiate your argument and post a track which exhibits the behaviour whilst maintaining proper launch parameters, ie above 50m AGL etc etc. Until then, I bid thee adieu.

 

I already said I had this issue while above 50 meters. This is what I was talking about when I said I saw the shvkal and laser "decouple" once. And as you already know, I said I do not wish to sort through all the multiplayer tracks I have, there are quite alot. So perhaps you can see how this angers me, as you are effectively calling me a liar or delusional, and also pushing the problem aside and finding a convenient excuse not to admit there is something wrong with the sim by blaming it on something that almost certainly does not have anything to do with it. Basically, of all the possible causes that could cause this, the chance that altitude factors in is quite remote simply because of the huge number of other factors that could cause it. I've fired quite a few Kh-25s and this is a RARE problem. Personally, I don't even think it's a big problem that even NEEDS to be addressed, it's too rare. The whole issue is blown out of proportion.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Speed

[159th_Viper]

Personally, I don't even think it's a big problem that even NEEDS to be addressed, it's too rare.

 

O.K.

[Speed]

It most certainly does. If you look at the manual, even the gun has a minimum safe altitude and below that firing is prohibited.

 

 

Well, that's not really an answer to the question. Just because it's not recommended doesn't mean it can't be done. My question is what is the actual real life limitation that keeps you from firing the weapon really low? That the missile might go off course a little bit at the beginning of its flight and hit the ground early?

 

Oh, and I would really like an explanation to how the missile reticle ON YOUR HUD follows your WINGMAN'S laser spot even when the Skhval is off if the missile seeker head sends no data to the helo as you guys repeatedly insist. Until I get a proper explanation, I have to conclude that this data is indeed communicated by the seeker head. Again, I ask, is this a case of the missile not being modelled properly in Black Shark?

Edited September 22, 2010 by Speed