Roll rate

[SilentEagle]

No fuel in wings, clean, no air brakes, 300 knots test:

 

SL: 80 deg/s

 

10,000 ft: 77 deg/s

 

20,000 ft: 67 deg/s

 

I'd be happy with 130 deg/s with no brakes used, but unfortunately 80 =! 130

 

I'm also not seeing an increase in roll rate at higher altitudes, only slightly faster at speeds over 300 knots.

[BlueRidgeDx]

Sorry to belabor the point, but in addition to the info contained in this thread and in the FM thread in the Beta forum, here's another bit of reference:

 

 

"Roll Rate. Roll rate for the A-10 remains fairly constant throughout the entire speed regime. However, at slower airspeeds under high-G loading, you can anticipate slightly slower roll rates. The aircraft will maintain roll authority into the stall. Deploying speed brakes at 20 to 40 percent can accelerate roll rates. However, this technique is not normally recommended due to high-energy bleed rates compared with small roll rate increases."

 

and;

 

"Roll. At high speed and low AOA, the A-10 has a roll rate capability of 130 degrees per second without speed brakes at 300 KIAS. With 40 percent speed brakes, the roll rate increases to 200 degrees per second. While speed brakes will increase roll rate, energy will be lost and performance may actually be degraded if speed brakes are left open. Utilizing speed brakes at high AOA and low airspeeds is not recommended. As airspeed slows and AOA increases, roll performance begins to degrade. At slow speed, roll rate is decreased but still sufficient for most purposes. Roll rates are higher when the aircraft is unloaded. Both loaded and unloaded rolls have specific uses in aerial combat."

Edited October 8, 2010 by BlueRidgeDx

[Krunkskimo]

I've noticed in the beta if you open your brakes just slightly they will resettle to the closed position as long as you dont open them to wide.

 

So perhaps if you quickly flare your brakes combined with turning your ailerons that may increase deflection speed and perhaps accelerate the roll faster?

 

Unless the mechanics of the hydralic system is setup in a way the combination of the two inputs, aileron movement+brake spread, does not increase defelction speed im guessing thats what we are missing.

[hassata]

To be serious, of course we plan to have it in release version.

 

The more i read, the more it seems we have an early build. Which really quite amazing given the fun I'm having.

[Yo-Yo]

No fuel in wings, clean, no air brakes, 300 knots test:

 

SL: 80 deg/s

 

10,000 ft: 77 deg/s

 

20,000 ft: 67 deg/s

 

I'd be happy with 130 deg/s with no brakes used, but unfortunately 80 =! 130

 

I'm also not seeing an increase in roll rate at higher altitudes, only slightly faster at speeds over 300 knots.

 

How did you measure these values? Was 300 knots speed KTAS or KIAS?

Edited October 8, 2010 by Yo-Yo

[Yo-Yo]

The more i read, the more it seems we have an early build. Which really quite amazing given the fun I'm having.

 

Don't be so optimistic (or pessimistic?) - the FM and systems have almost all functionality we planned to implement. Some systems though are not fine tuned, some features like speed brakes to roll effect are not ready because we have to rework the basic FM especially for A-10.

If we managed to made compressor stall because of high AoA does it mean that you deal with an early build? :)

[NotiA10]

Boards?

 

boards = speed brakes

[aaron886]

To break complaining I quote the FM:

 

Roll rates up to 130 degrees per second can be expected with 0% speed brakes at 300 KIAS and up to 200 degrees per second with 40% speed brakes at 300 KIAS (Greetings to the Announcer!)

 

NB: the roll rate at SL will be less because of more damping effect.

 

Good info Yo-Yo, thank you! Do you plan to try to increase the roll rate to match those values? I think everyone has been finding roll rates in the 70-80 DPS range. Regardless of whether or not SilentEagle was reading Indicated or True, it's still a very large disparity!

 

Thanks. :)

[hassata]

Don't be so optimistic (or pessimistic?) - the FM and systems have almost all functionality we planned to implement. Some systems though are not fine tuned, some features like speed brakes to roll effect are not ready because we have to rework the basic FM especially for A-10.

If we managed to made compressor stall because of high AoA does it mean that you deal with an early build? :)

 

My point being that what we have is pretty amazing for a beta. And if things are only going to improve, than I and everyone else here are very lucky campers. Seriously, congratulations on setting what appears to be a very high bar.

[Yo-Yo]

Good info Yo-Yo, thank you! Do you plan to try to increase the roll rate to match those values? I think everyone has been finding roll rates in the 70-80 DPS range. Regardless of whether or not SilentEagle was reading Indicated or True, it's still a very large disparity!

 

Thanks. :)

 

Try to measure INSTANT roll rate at 20000 ft at 300 KIAS after you get constant rotational speed. You will be surprised. Play the track at low speed and measure the time between to bank readings form F2 view.

[Yo-Yo]

My point being that what we have is pretty amazing for a beta. And if things are only going to improve, than I and everyone else here are very lucky campers. Seriously, congratulations on setting what appears to be a very high bar.

 

Thank you very much! In addition I have to say that at least 3 main points make AFM-3 or AFM-M3 different from the Su-25. One of them is engine model but remaining two are not discovered by the users yet... all of you have the chance to be the first.. :)

[NotiA10]

i havent got the game (got no comp to run it on yet) but ..... let me guess at least one of them

 

influence of flaps ? does the nose drop if you engage the flaps ?

 

wbr,

NotiA10

[Yo-Yo]

i havent got the game (got no comp to run it on yet) but ..... let me guess at least one of them

 

influence of flaps ? does the nose drop if you engage the flaps ?

 

wbr,

NotiA10

 

No, this effect was even in the first AFM of Su-25... something special. :) I am waiting for somebody who will notice them.

[Lobo_63]

Great real life demo showing the A-10's amazing performance capabiltities.

 

 

Observe several things in the above video:

 

1) The roll rate. Time the rolls and you see roll rates in excess of 180 degrees per second.

 

2) The ability of the pilot to rapidly deflect the ailerons. Nearly instantaneous.

 

3) The phenomenal turn performance of the jet.

 

Some comments and constructive criticism re the DCS A-10C sim (and I know it's a BETA...)

 

1) The roll rate is S-L-O-W. With No weps, no ammo, no flares/chaff and fuel 30% and Sub zero outside temps I get at best a roll rate of approx 81 degrees per second. (About 100 degrees per second slower than in the above demo).

 

2) The ailerons (and stick) in the sim move very S-L-O-W. Full deflection is nothing like in the above video of the real A-10.

 

I hope that some of these things can be adjusted in this otherwise fantastic and extremely promising sim. :thumbup:

Edited October 9, 2010 by Lobo_63
Edited for accuracy

[GGTharos]

Numbers or it didn't happen. In addition, what are you comparing to?

 

3) The turn rate performance of the DCS A-10C is not great. Does not compare to the real life demo above. In the sim max AoA is very easily achieved and exceeded. Departure from controlled flight is very easy if you try and fly it with turn rates as seen in real life.

 

I hope that some of these things can be adjusted in this otherwise fantastic and extremely promising sim. :thumbup:

[*Rage*]

Great real life demo showing the A-10's amazing performance capabiltities.

 

 

Observe several things in the above video:

 

1) The roll rate. Time the rolls and you see roll rates in excess of 180 degrees per second.

 

2) The ability of the pilot to rapidly deflect the ailerons. Nearly instantaneous.

 

3) The phenomenal turn performance of the jet.

 

Some comments and constructive criticism re the DCS A-10C sim (and I know it's a BETA...)

 

1) The roll rate is S-L-O-W. With No weps, no ammo, no flares/chaff and fuel 30% and Sub zero outside temps I get at best a roll rate of approx 81 degrees per second. (About 100 degrees per second slower than in the above demo).

 

2) The ailerons (and stick) in the sim move very S-L-O-W. Full deflection is nothing like in the above video of the real A-10.

 

3) The turn rate performance of the DCS A-10C is not great. Does not compare to the real life demo above. In the sim max AoA is very easily achieved and exceeded. Departure from controlled flight is very easy if you try and fly it with turn rates as seen in real life.

 

I hope that some of these things can be adjusted in this otherwise fantastic and extremely promising sim. :thumbup:

 

Wow..Great video for demonstrating roll rate.

 

Pay attention beta testers!

[kingneptune117]

Maybe the video is of the A-10A. Perhaps the A-10C's avionics suite weights down the aircraft and affects rollrate? If not there is defineteley something wrong with the roll rate in this sim. Ive tried flying the hog at like 10% fuel and the roll rate is nothing like in this video. And that was on a clean config.

[Lobo_63]

Numbers or it didn't happen. In addition, what are you comparing to?

 

Edited point 3. On further examination and dropping outside temps I am getting turn rates not far below what was achieved in the air demo above.

 

My points on the roll rate and aileron deflection stand. The differences are quite obvious by comparing the video and the sim.

[Lobo_63]

Here is another great video of the East Coast A-10 Demo team flying the A-10C. Note the roll rate.

 

Edited October 9, 2010 by Lobo_63
Added link

[aaron886]

Try to measure INSTANT roll rate at 20000 ft at 300 KIAS after you get constant rotational speed. You will be surprised. Play the track at low speed and measure the time between to bank readings form F2 view.

 

Ok! I'll be interested to see it. Obviously, the problem we've seen is that the roll rate is too slow at low altitudes, and in pretty much any realistic configuration we've tried. (low fuel, no fuel in wings, clean loadout, even no chaff...)

 

Great real life demo showing the A-10's amazing performance capabiltities.

 

 

Observe several things in the above video:

 

1) The roll rate. Time the rolls and you see roll rates in excess of 180 degrees per second.

 

2) The ability of the pilot to rapidly deflect the ailerons. Nearly instantaneous.

 

3) The phenomenal turn performance of the jet.

 

Some comments and constructive criticism re the DCS A-10C sim (and I know it's a BETA...)

 

1) The roll rate is S-L-O-W. With No weps, no ammo, no flares/chaff and fuel 30% and Sub zero outside temps I get at best a roll rate of approx 81 degrees per second. (About 100 degrees per second slower than in the above demo).

 

2) The ailerons (and stick) in the sim move very S-L-O-W. Full deflection is nothing like in the above video of the real A-10.

 

I hope that some of these things can be adjusted in this otherwise fantastic and extremely promising sim. :thumbup:

 

 

Not sure if you caught it, but all if this was already said! :) I even put that exact video in the original post.

Edited October 10, 2010 by aaron886