F/A-18 vS Mig-29 real movie

[Hitman IF]

In all this argument about speed of production of new as opposed to WW2, it's important to note that pilots can't be trained as quickly now, no matter how much money you pour into making rapid production lines for the planes themselves.

[Orao]

In all this argument about speed of production of new as opposed to WW2, it's important to note that pilots can't be trained as quickly now, no matter how much money you pour into making rapid production lines for the planes themselves.

 

Yep but the surviability of pilots today in dogfight is much improved. So you can use same pilots for flying missions. The only factor of limitation would be the fact they can eject only 3 times.

 

However in time of war the army will take guys which wouldn't have passed trials in peace time. Same thing happened during Battle of Britain. They were producing more planes than they had pilots. And many young pilots didn't match the criteria for being the fighter pilot in peace time but they flew in war time.

[JaBoG32_Pjotr]

That's the infamous swiss alps. The swiss AF regularly flys through the barrage of mountains, it really is an amazing sight.

 

 

 

Ah, there's also the other part to the full movie out there, capturing scenes of select swiss fighters blazing through the alps.

 

You got a link to the other sections to the movie?

 

 

You might be referring to one of these two videos.

 

Swiss Air Force - Push the limit (180 Mb)

 

MIII (35 Mb low res)

 

But i am not aware of any full version of the Mig vs Hornet engagement.

[Hitman IF]

Yep but the surviability of pilots today in dogfight is much improved. So you can use same pilots for flying missions. The only factor of limitation would be the fact they can eject only 3 times.

 

I don't think survivability has improved at all. Though I don't think the 3 ejection limit applies anymore with the latest seats.

 

It depends over who's territory you're fighting over I suppose.

[Orao]

I agree with you on your last sentence.

[Pilotasso]

WW2 planes were not cheap at all. In those days we still used manpower to manufacture them. Today you have machines but the technology got more complicated too and since it's produced in small numbers it remains expensive. But during war time it's different. I beleive that Winston Churchil said " Victory at all cost".

 

Ok, I didnt make myself clear. I said WW2 were rediculously cheaper compared to todays standards. Today you have what? 500 military aircraft in the each of the major countries in europe VS tens of thousands during the war. why? they were made very fast with less effort and cost per unit. The technology was more tangible compared to what there was at the time.

Today if you have a war, youll never see fighter production increase in time for it. If a number of fighters are lost they will never be replaced before the war ends. Today its all over in days, no longer you have an industry replacing units as they are needed.

 

Now for your reference on Russian planes. The only air operation where Mig-29A was involved against NATO and mostly American made planes is the operation over Serbia and Montenegro in 1999. I don't count incedents between IAF and Arabic states.

 

 

Actualy I had IAF and arab wars in mind. Judging by your nick I think you mentioned Yoguslavia because you have some sort of relation with it. I didnt consider that scenario of much relevance on this matter, as the best (in theory) Yugoslav planes were not really serviceable. But in IAF wars there was 2 aircraft manufacture philosofies that clashed. Superfightrs VS lean tin can fighters. The poor mig-21 was made for ease of manufacture and numbers but it was so badly surpased by F-15 and 16's that, that advantage was completely offset!

 

Now you guys don't get me wrong. I have nothing against the USA nor their technology but when I hear things like we should spend several billions just to have few planes which will be so expensive that not even the US can't afford more than 100 front line figter planes well it's just make me think that something isn't OK.

 

Your right and what was not OK was that there were technical difficulties added with a manufacture process not as integrated as it was needed like for the F-35. wich is an attempt to return to the past where you had a fast manufacture of fighters (read recently there will be an F-35 made each day at the peak production) Appart from that its the most formidable fighter ever made(f-22).

 

When I was talking about fiasco concerning the F/A-22 I was talking in financial terms.

 

In that case your right. But for many aviation fans and Pilots, and for national pride it will all be forgotten years from now.

[GGTharos]

You might be referring to one of these two videos.

 

Swiss Air Force - Push the limit (180 Mb)

 

MIII (35 Mb low res)

 

But i am not aware of any full version of the Mig vs Hornet engagement.

 

 

Pjotr, what codecs?

[JaBoG32_Pjotr]

Try Divx (http://www.divx.com/divx/?src=toptab_divx_from_/index.php)

VLC-Player should play it too (http://www.videolan.org/vlc/)

 

I'm not sure which codec it is exactley because I have different ones installed.

[Orao]

The poor mig-21 was made for ease of manufacture and numbers but it was so badly surpased by F-15 and 16's that, that advantage was completely offset![/Quote]

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but Mig-21 was designed to kill Phantom whereas F-15 was designed to counter Mig-25 (when everyone thought that this one was ultimate combat jet).

 

First version of F-16, the F-16A was designed exclusevly for dogfighting. It didn't have any BVR capabilities. Later on Soviet Union has developped the Mig-29 as a front line fighter and Su-27 as a long range interceptor. Fast and high interception misions were left to the Mig-31.

 

And yes you are right I'm relative to the former Yougoslavia my birthplace but that dosen't influence my judgement at all.

 

Actually I didn't want to refer to IAF vs Arab states because those incedents were not a full scale air war except maybe encounters between IAF and Syrian air force over Liban.

 

I think that this should be the final word.....

But for many aviation fans and Pilots, and for national pride it will all be forgotten years from now.[/Quote]

 

Now I invite you to have a drink with me, my turn.

 

Cheers.

[Pilotasso]

Correct me if I'm wrong but Mig-21 was designed to kill Phantom whereas F-15 was designed to counter Mig-25 (when everyone thought that this one was ultimate combat jet).

 

First version of F-16, the F-16A was designed exclusevly for dogfighting. It didn't have any BVR capabilities. Later on Soviet Union has developped the Mig-29 as a front line fighter and Su-27 as a long range interceptor. Fast and high interception misions were left to the Mig-31.

 

And yes you are right I'm relative to the former Yougoslavia my birthplace but that dosen't influence my judgement at all.

 

Actually I didn't want to refer to IAF vs Arab states because those incedents were not a full scale air war except maybe encounters between IAF and Syrian air force over Liban.

 

I think that this should be the final word.....

 

 

Now I invite you to have a drink with me, my turn.

 

Cheers.

 

The F-16A didnt have any BVR but back then it wasnt much of an issue as it is today. The F-16 scored many victories in Israeli hands. I recommend you reading books about those conflicts, since they actualy have been the most active air scenarios since WW2. Funny you should mention the mig-21 was designed to counter the F-4 when by that time the new mig-23 entered service and it fared even worse than the 21. Somehow this escapes everybody's recolection.

 

cheers!

[Haele]

You might be referring to one of these two videos.

 

Swiss Air Force - Push the limit (180 Mb)

 

MIII (35 Mb low res)

 

But i am not aware of any full version of the Mig vs Hornet engagement.

 

The big video would have been fantastic if it wasn't for the lousy soundtrack drowning our the roar.