Markpoits

[STP Dragon]

Hi guys,

 

I saw this video and want to try this out.

 

I lasered the targets with the TGP and clicked TMS right short to add a markpoint.

The problem is that I don't marked the position of the targets, I marked the position of my A-10 at the time I added the mark points. :huh:

 

What did I wrong?

x_TEST_x.miz.trk

[kylania]

Once you made the mark, confirmed by glancing at the CDU, you can switch the SteerPoint knob on the right side low panel to MARK, then you can use the SteerPoint rocker on the UFC, left side, to cycle through.

[STP Dragon]

I don't understand you exactly but I don't have the problem to cycle the markpoints.

My problem is that I don't marked the position of the targets.

I marked my position like you can see on the TAD.

Please take a look at the .trk.

[bengo]

From the manual :

There are two types of markpoints: an overhead mark and an offset mark. An overhead mark records the current aircraft position while an offset mark records the coordinates and elevation of a point identified by a sensor like the targeting pod.

 

And :

11. MK Button. The MK pushbutton commands creation of an overhead markpoint or overhead update.

 

That's the MK-button on the CDU.

 

No guarantees, only what is in the manual.

[STP Dragon]

But I pushed TMS right short... not the MK-Button...

[kylania]

Still at work so can't check the trk right now. I had that happen to be last night actually I think, at least my second mark was 15nm off! Are you sure you had the HUD as SOI instead of TAD?

[Lio]

You should have the TGP as your SOI, then press TMS SHORT and look at MARK A appearing on the CDU for 30 sec.

[Revelation]

Make sure you don't forget to press TMS long down/back after you assign your targets using the TMS short right.

[Nickhawk]

@Dragon wie Leo schon gesagt hat, du musst den TGP als SOI haben (hattest du ja) aber du musst den punkt wo das ziel steht zum SOI machen und erst dann TMS rechts für den markpoint.

 

:)

[Lio]

I uploaded a track of how i do it.

Notice i make sure TGP is SOI before i mark i make the TGP target point SPI(TMS UP Long) then i mark using (TMS Right Short)

 

Then i put the knob as you do to MARK on the CDU and i can now cycle my mark A and B. Then china hat forward long i think it is to slave the TGP as the SOI to the mark point you have selected.

Markpoint_use.trk

[Woots]

You should have the TGP as your SOI, then press TMS SHORT and look at MARK A appearing on the CDU for 30 sec.

 

Right on.

 

Also, one gotchya that got me. If you're using multiple markpoints to bomb multiple targets with the GBU-38 or GBU-31, make sure the markpoints are set as SPI. I somehow had the SPI set on a ground reference by mistake. I dropped 3 GBU-31s, cycling thru 3 markpoints I had made. All 3 GBU-31s hit that one spot of dirt. Make sure the markpoint has a tail on it pointing to the TVV or it's not the SPI and your bombs are not going to hit it. A simple TMS DOWN LONG would have set SPI to steerpoint and the SPI would have been set to each markpoint as I cycled thru them

[Woots]

i make the TGP target point SPI(TMS UP Long) then i mark using (TMS Right Short)

 

You don't have to make the target point SPI IIRC. Just get it in the TGP crosshairs and TMS right short to mark it.

[VTJS17_Fire]

aber du musst den punkt wo das ziel steht zum SOI machen und erst dann TMS rechts für den markpoint.

 

:)

 

Das wäre dann der SPI = Sensor Point of Interest. :music_whistling:

 

 

kind regards,

Fire

[Nickhawk]

Das wäre dann der SPI = Sensor Point of Interest. :music_whistling:

 

 

kind regards,

Fire

 

 

meinte ich ja! gut aufgepasst :)

[Zomba]

Whilst we are on this subject. I normally used the method that just entered offset marks into a new custom flight plan and switched between that and the main flight plan, but obviously the TMS right short and then using CDU on Mark function is much more efficient and I've switched to that. The only thing is is how do you delete these marks? The flight plan marks are easy to delete by just selecting them and pressing 'CLR'.

[STP Dragon]

Thank you all for your answers but I think you don't understand my problem.

 

I don'T have the problem to set the markpoints as SPI and I don't have the problem to slew the MAV/TGP to the SPI/markpoints by chinahat forward long.

 

My problem is, that I didn't mark the targets I locked in the TGP!

I marked my position and I don't understand why.

 

My procedure:

- Switched the left MFD to TGP

- Switched the right MFD to CDU

- Set the left MFD (TGP) as SOI

- Set the CNTL > LATCH > ON

- Scanning for enemys by Slewcontrol and DMS forward and after (zoom)

- Found three enemys

- Set the crosshair of the TGP on the first enemy

- Activated the laser

- Pressed TMS forward short to POINT the target

- Pressed TMS right short to set the Markpoint A

- Slewed to the second enemy

- Pressed TMS forward short to POINT the target

- Pressed TMS right short to set the Markpoint B

- Slewed to the last enemy

- Pressed TMS forward short to POINT the target

- Pressed TMS right short to set the Markpoint C

- Switched off the laser

- Switched to TAD on the left MFD

- Switched from FL PLAN to MARK on the CDU (rotary switch)

- Set the HUD to SOI

- Cycled the markpoints by pressing the DMS forward short

-> On the TAD you can see that the markpoints are behind me on the position my A-10 was, once I made the markpoints.

 

 

@ Nickhawk: Please take a look at the video. He didn't set the bunker-mark to SPI. He only slewed the crosshair on the roof of the bunker and set the markpoint. He didn't lock the target by POINT.

Edited November 5, 2010 by =STP= Dragon

[pyates2104]

I have exactly the same problem as you. Basically the TMS right short is marking the points as if you were pressing the mark button on the CDU and not marking them as offset. I spent 3 hours last night going over the video and trying to figure out what I have missed. Is everyone sure this is not an issue introduced by beta 2? Or am I being strangely dumb?

[RogueRunner]

Dragon, a trk please. This procedure works for me 100% dropping multiple JDAMS in one pass with all of them hitting the points I marked via the TGP.

[STP Dragon]

.trk in the first posting. :)

[takamba]

I use the same procedure like Dragon described in his last post.

 

My JDAM will hit the mark point exactly, but my mark points are allways off the target. ALLWAYS!!!

 

I know for sure how to use the TGP and the laser-ranging to create a proper mark point. Thats not the problem.

 

@RogueRunner:

 

Please upload a track of a multiple JDAM run.

[Woots]

Just a thought here. When I set multiple markpoints for enemy contacts in close proximity, it's hard to tell one markpoint from another using the TAD. If you come around 180 deg and look thru the HUD, it's much easier to distinguish the different markpoints, especially when they're only yards apart from each other. if you do use the TAD, EXP1 or EXP2 would help. Your technique appears to be spot on.

 

IIRC, the markpoints can't be cleared. You have to go thru the entire alphabet before they will overwrite each other. I just scroll thru them backwards, starting from the most recent.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Woots

[coolts]

Mark points are defined as either "overhead" or "offset" (page 164). Basically, as i understand it, if you have a ground point set as SPI, (and Dragon, looking at your description, you didn’t), and you create a mark point, it will be based on the SPI point as "offset" from you position. If you have no SPI , you will store your current location for flyover waypoint creation.

 

**EDIT** Try resetting SPI (TMS Aft Long), and see if there is a difference in the Long/Lat coordinates of two markpints in the CDU. I will do some tests tomorrow

 

At least thats how i understand it. I'm at work so cant experiment.

 

Just a thought here. When I set multiple markpoints for enemy contacts in close proximity, it's hard to tell one markpoint from another using the TAD. If you come around 180 deg and look thru the HUD, it's much easier to distinguish the different markpoints, especially when they're only yards apart from each other. if you do use the TAD, EXP1 or EXP2 would help. Your technique appears to be spot on.

 

IIRC, the markpoints can't be cleared. You have to go thru the entire alphabet before they will overwrite each other. I just scroll thru them backwards, starting from the most recent.

 

have the CDU repeater in 2nd MCFD and you can see the lat/long co-ords of your markpoints

Edited November 5, 2010 by coolts

[Buehgler]

Mark points are defined as either "overhead" or "offset" (page 164). Basically, as i understand it, if you have a ground point set as SPI, (and Dragon, looking at your description, you didn’t), and you create a mark point, it will be based on the SPI point as "offset" from you position. If you have no SPI , you will store your current location for flyover waypoint creation.

 

At least thats how i understand it. I'm at work so cant experiment.

 

I am also unable to experiment at the moment. But I agree with colts' diagnosis. TMS right-short will set a mark at the current SPI. Dragon, I believe you just need to TMS up-long to set the SPI before you use right-short and your problem will be solved.

 

Also, I believe you do not need to activate the laser designator to execute this sequence. It is possible that activating it may improve the accuracy of the mark, but that would require some experimentation.

[Bahger]

is a fantastic video that shows exactly how this is done. The problem with YouTube resolution is that it is difficult to identify the switchology and HUD/MFD symbology with precision but this guy demonstrates beyond all contradiction that you can mark and destroy four moving vehicles in rapid succession with four JDAMs from 14,000ft. It's very impressive.

 

(The step that some of you are missing appears to be using the flightplan computer (CDU) to store the markpoints in a flightplan, making them waypoints that show up in the TAD. You probably need to reverse course or offset to give yourself the time to do this. Then you roll back in and, as long as you can switch waypoints quickly enough, drop on up to 9 pre-marked targets!)

Edited November 5, 2010 by Bahger

[Woots]

(The step that some of you are missing appears to be using the flightplan computer (CDU) to store the markpoints in a flightplan, making them waypoints that show up in the TAD.

 

Yeah, that is a good video, but you'll find that skipping the above step is much easier. Instead of the above, simply rotate the STEER PT dial to MARK to make the markpoints show up on the HUD.

Edited November 5, 2010 by Woots