can a pilot know he got shot down by a friendly aircraft?

[flydragon126]

just curious, in real-life, in a chaotic air fight, if a pilot is shot down by a missile fired by a friendly aircraft, can he know the missile was from a friendly aircraft?

assuming the positions of aircrafts from both sides are mixed altogether, and if the AWAC is not watching the missiles.

[Succellus]

Assuming he is healthy after being hit, only when the ring is set up, and the bets taken.

[bumfire]

Yea, he can tell that it was a friendly that shot him down, as if I recall correctly, the bullets have a return address stamped onto them :)

 

Return to sender :)

[swift]

You win the intriguing question of the day award, congrats :)

 

The only clue I can think of is the RWR chirp if a friendly radar was painting the poor guy, but it'd be very ambiguous. The cursing over the net and the words blue-on-blue would give some hints too.

[EtherealN]

Swift, don't judge real RWR based on what you've seen in FC2, A-10C or Falcon. There are things in that one that are very very classified. :P (Point being, I dunno, but the RWR is one of the components I'd definitely NOT want to try draw any conclusions on RL based on sims.)

[leafer]

Oh, I get that urge too. That's what silencers are for, flydragon... you did not hear this from me!

[GGTharos]

just curious, in real-life, in a chaotic air fight, if a pilot is shot down by a missile fired by a friendly aircraft, can he know the missile was from a friendly aircraft?

 

In a furball? Not likely. In a furball you probably won't know what hit you.

 

assuming the positions of aircrafts from both sides are mixed altogether, and if the AWAC is not watching the missiles.

 

The awacs has absolutely no way of watching air to air missiles. It can't even tell you who's where in a furball because of the long update rate.

[Moa]

A US E-3 AWACS has a long update rate due to the physical rotation of the radar. Other nations (Sweden, Israel, and clients of the same) have electronically steered AESA AWACS that don't have the same refresh rate limitations (although they scan a more limited area).

 

In general, pilots try to maintain situational awareness which means they know who is close-by. You would generally know who shot you unless you are not paying attention or were engaged when someone else sneaked in (something proper element/division tactics try to avoid).

 

Furballs are great fun online but ever since the late 1990's they are much less likely to happen in real-life (compared to this game set in the 1980s) with the advent of better long-range missiles and better inter-aircraft communication and the great expansion of capacity for essentially un-jammable encrypted satellite links between them. Furballs are less likely when modern aircraft meet (caveat: if the Rules of Engagement require positive visual ID of a target then ranges get closer).

 

What is known of current USAF doctrine is it seems to try to avoid furballs since that negates the electronic superiority of their fighter radars and missiles. US aircraft can engage, extend and re-engage at range. This maintains the advantage they have in AWACS control, fighter radar, and missile electronics. If the US has the strategic initiative (which it almost always does) then they dictate the range of the engagement (since they are not forced to close), making furballs more rare.

 

Sure the US trains for WVR ('dogfight') combat (via the famous Red Flag, Navy Topgun, etc etc) since they *can* eventuate, but with proper AWACS control US fighters simply shouldn't get that close (if you do then it is a 'fail' tactically, since they're giving an advantage to the Russian aircraft which are very good in a furball). Even if the pilots versed in Russian tactics try to close the US will try to extend to maintain advantage. The proportion of medium-range missile shots to short-range missile shots changed between 1990 (think first Gulf War) and mid-1990s and beyond (Bosnia and Second Gulf War).

 

This makes the question about 'would you know who shot you' of academic interest but not really applicable to real-life. You might not know straight away, but if you survived then the post-battle debrief would use numerous sources (E-3, E-8, ELINT, X-Band radar, Aegis AN/SPY-1 if these are nearby and there is an investigation/court-martial about a possible BLUE-on-BLUE) to find out. Even if some of these can't see missiles (many can) you can infer launches from aircraft locations and attitudes.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Moa

[flydragon126]

thanks guys.

i found immediate friendly-fire report in games, so i wondered "how could he know it was me?" :D

[mikoyan]

yes he can; he just need to look at the stats jaja... there had been several cases of friendly fire; for example in japan an f-15 shoot down anther f-15 by mistake because the master arm switch was on an the pilot didn't noticed. The russians also had similar accidents; there was a case of an su-25 downing another su-25 not too long ago and a mig-23 on mig-23 accident on the 80s

[GGTharos]

None of these are furballs involving actual combat. Those are all training accidents, and yes, it's easy to know it was friendly fire because there's no enemies around.

 

yes he can; he just need to look at the stats jaja... there had been several cases of friendly fire; for example in japan an f-15 shoot down anther f-15 by mistake because the master arm switch was on an the pilot didn't noticed. The russians also had similar accidents; there was a case of an su-25 downing another su-25 not too long ago and a mig-23 on mig-23 accident on the 80s

[Succellus]

Ummm and those are just.. i don like you buddy but i m so sorry this accident happened :D.

Can i break your neck ?