Henchman14 Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 Yeah, I've never tried to shoot down a Hind, only Apaches so far. And the 30mm seems to work well enough against them. Its just the vhikers that don't seem to work. And if you look at the copter with F2, its shredded to hell, but still flying ok.
Henchman14 Posted January 10, 2011 Author Posted January 10, 2011 Yuya, from those pictures, it does not appear to have armor on Ka50 engine covers. If there is any armor, it looks to be pretty thin. Yeah, it looks pretty thin, but then look at the cockpit door. It looks thin too, yet it can stop 23mm. I don't know what to think from those pics.
Yuya6104 Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 armor is yhin on on top the engines but on side an below is armored in engines.. like a tank tanks armor is weak in rear so Black shark weak on top the engines no think ground frire be shooting down to the rotors unless was shot from above..
power5 Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 The thickness of the door glass seems much thicker than the sheet metal on the engine covers. And its bullet proof plexi. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Aaron i7 2600k@4.4ghz, GTX1060-6gb, 16gb DDR3, T16000m, Track IR5 BS2-A10C-UH1-FC3-M2000-F18C-A4E-F14B-BF109
Yuya6104 Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 yes cockpit glass door armor thicker cause pilot is importent the engines covers protecting can withstain small arms an 12.7mm rounds not sure about 20mm since me didnt ask that question.. even through power5 san armor only covering very vital parts of black Shark gunship so all you need same as a tank.. ^^
msalama Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Yeah, I've never tried to shoot down a Hind, only Apaches so far. OK, yeah, I misunderstood something 'cuz I thought it was Hinds you were talking about too? I OTOH haven't shot even a single Apache down so far, so what I gotta do next is to set up a Yours Truly vs. Apache test mission to see what the ruckus is about :helpsmilie: The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
Bushmanni Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 I have never needed more than one direct hit or two near misses to bring down Apache with Vikhr. Sometimes my Vikhrs have been exploded when going past the Apaches Hellfire. Maybe that was what happened to you? Should have had the H2H option enabled to actually kill the Hellfire as it got clear of the explosion when in plain AA mode. To my knowledge all of the actual turbine engine is vital to its operation (compressor, burn chamber, turbines). If you shoot a 7.62 into any part of it it will cease to function. Only the air intake (particle separator/de-icing) and exhaust are capable to sustain some punctures without killing the engine. So you either have all of the engine covered or none of it as the whole thing consists of vital parts. I'm not exactly sure about this so someone who knows could educate me. And in the pictures it seems pretty clear there's no armor on the sides of the engines. More OT: I have got an opportunity to see a Hind-D at close range and inside the cockpit (at Kiev, memorial of the Great Patriotic War). It looked lot less armored than you would have imagined based on all the talking I have heard of it. An engine cover was open and looked exactly the same as the Ka-50 ones in the pictures. No armor, just plain aluminum sheet. The bubble side windows were relatively thin plastic, maybe about 5mm thick. Easily penetrated by a 7.62. The front window seemed thicker but still just 2-3cm. The really bulletproof windows I have seen are at least 5cm. Cockpit door was aluminum construction, looked big and thick but wasn't very heavy. It could have had armor inside and removed at some point, I don't know. But in it's current condition I wouldn't really put my faith in it stopping a bullet. The entire aircraft had aluminum outer skin, the armor it has is inside the fuselage as in Apache. This has me thinking as I have seen a video of side of Ka-50 cockpit being shot with a 23mm HE and it barely scratches the paint. Does Ka-50 have armored skin unlike the Apache which has armor inside instead? Or is that video just some misleading fake to fool pundits? I can't see any signs of welding except in the window frames in close up pictures of Ka-50 cockpit but rivets only which points to aluminum skin. Although the rivets are lot sparse in the cockpit sides compared to other areas. Anyone have good explanation? DCS Finland: Suomalainen DCS yhteisö -- Finnish DCS community -------------------------------------------------- SF Squadron
power5 Posted January 11, 2011 Posted January 11, 2011 Funny thing is that the apache are much weaker than kiowas in A10. At least they were in beta 2 when I built a mission. Hind always slaughtered the Apache, but the kiowas flew around looking like swiss cheese. They even took SAMs at close range (not direct impact). Apache never made it through mission, kiowas did. As for the engines, turbines can function with bent blades. This is from my experience with turbos which are similar to jet turbines. I have seen some pretty messed up turbos which have injested FOD. They obviously do not work at 100%, but they do not just cease working. I doubt a single round could kill a ka50 engine unless it was a magic bullet. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Aaron i7 2600k@4.4ghz, GTX1060-6gb, 16gb DDR3, T16000m, Track IR5 BS2-A10C-UH1-FC3-M2000-F18C-A4E-F14B-BF109
Henchman14 Posted January 11, 2011 Author Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) Well, some of those Strykers have some pretty magic rounds. :P Edited January 11, 2011 by Henchman14
msalama Posted January 12, 2011 Posted January 12, 2011 OK, I made this test mission where I attack an Apache D. He's a hard barstage to kill because he doesn't stay put :P but I got a good lock some 2kms away while on his six regardless. Took 2 Vikhrs to take him down; the 1st was a near miss and the 2nd a bullseye - sheared his tail right off! I dunno, doesn't seem to be too badly off to me? The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
Henchman14 Posted January 12, 2011 Author Posted January 12, 2011 Yeah, their tails seem to be the most vulnerable. But now try killing their engines.
Major SNAFU Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 Good tactics is more effective than relying on armor plating. You shouldn't fly into areas where you get shot at in the first place. :) [sarcasm on] Absolutely. Never, ever fly into, around or over anything that looks like it might be a potential battlefield. In addition, watch out for trees, houses, and grass-covered knolls as well. In fact, restrain your flight to within 1-2 clicks of the airbase and you should be fine.... [sarcasm off] But I agree about the using good tactics. If we had AI wingmen who could competently perform overwatch and understand a bounding overwatch, this would be much simplified. People tend to be less enthusiastic about shooting helo "A" when helo "B" is hovering and just waiting for them to show themselves.
msalama Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 (edited) Yeah, their tails seem to be the most vulnerable. But now try killing their engines. Just did, with a result of 1 Vikhr hit from the side bringing him down (see the attached track). So in conclusion there's still nothing wrong with either the Vikhrs or the DM that I can see...VikhrVsApache.trk Edited January 13, 2011 by msalama The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
Henchman14 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Posted January 13, 2011 Interesting, I can never hit them from the side. My Vhikers seem to chase them and then, nothing. Tried vhikers against an Mi-28 last night, same thing. Was only able to hit him after I got behind him. Then brought him down with one vhiker. Still have problems with the Apaches though, even from behind. They're blown to hell, but they just won't drop.
sobek Posted January 13, 2011 Posted January 13, 2011 [sarcasm on] In fact, restrain your flight to within 1-2 clicks of the airbase and you should be fine.... [sarcasm off] Avoiding the firezones of enemy positions doesn't keep you from participating in the battle, it just keeps you from getting pwned :P;) Good, fast, cheap. Choose any two. Come let's eat grandpa! Use punctuation, save lives!
Henchman14 Posted January 13, 2011 Author Posted January 13, 2011 Lol, yeah, I've learned that. Even .50 cal can bring you down quick. Tanks and Strykers in a group can be REALLY nasty.
msalama Posted January 14, 2011 Posted January 14, 2011 Avoiding the firezones of enemy positions doesn't keep you from participating in the battle, it just keeps you from getting pwned :P;) ...aaaand some even say firezone avoidance is actually a proper tactic for the whirlybird! How strange :shocking: :D The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.
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