Landing Traffic Pattern Quandary

[REL]

Hey

 

Manual page 491:

Landing Traffic Pattern

After completing a sortie, perhaps the most challenging part may still await you… the landing. Depending on the time of day, weather conditions, and the amount of air traffic in the area, there are one of three landing methods you may need to use.

1. TACAN Approach. This approach is based on navigating to the selected Tactical Air Navigation (TACAN) station located on or near the airfield prior to landing.

2. ILS Approach. This approach is based on flight direction from the Instrument Landing System (ILS).

3. GCA Approach. A radar approach is based on directions provided by the Air Traffic Control (ATC) center.

 

Manual page 494:

Ground Control Approach (GCA)

Prior to approach, contact ATC and request approach and the ATC will provide you with heading, altitude and airspeed data at which to reach the pattern entry point. From there you will fly the following legs in communication with ATC. This could either be a straight in or circling approach to landing.

 

#Is the GCA is implemented in the sim?

 

#Is the GCA radio instructions are diffrent from ILS or TACAN?

 

#do I supposed to choose one of them (in case all three are available)?

 

#how do I "update" the ATC about my choice? (is there a different radio command?)

 

Thanks in advance :(

Edited March 13, 2011 by REL

[dc338]

I would say no.

 

TACAN approach requires an approach plate.

 

ILS is available and works.

 

GCA not sure but I think in game they would only get you to a point of performing a visual approach. I don't think it is the same as a PRA. (precision radar approach) where the controller talks you down to the ground like an ILS.

[effte]

A GCA is vastly different and I'd be very surprised (and impressed!) if it is hidden in the menus somewhere.

[REL]

Just came across those files (...Sounds\Speech\Sound\ENG\ATC\Messages)

does anyone heard them ???

 

"you are above glide path"

"you are below glide path"

"you are on glide path"

looks like the GCA sound file are there right ?

 

And there is more :

"traffic bearing"

"orbit for spacing

"taxi to parking area" - seem so basic but never heard that one too.

"hold position"

"continue taxi" - interesting!

Edited March 13, 2011 by REL

[nomdeplume]

The "you are above/below/on glide path" messages were heard in FC2, so they may just be leftovers from prior development work. I think they magically became enabled when you were in ILS mode.

 

"Orbit for spacing" is heard when the runway is in use during approach, although so far as I can determine only occurs if there's an aircraft actually on the runway, not e.g. another flight on final.

 

I haven't heard the "Traffic bearing" in A-10C, but it was used in FC2 - when you're in proximity to the airport, and there is other air traffic close to you, the ATC informs you of its position.

 

I don't think I've heard "taxi to parking area", "hold position" or "continue taxi" in ED's games.

[mooshim]

Interesting thread

 

QFE calls giving barometric pressure (adjusted to airfield elevation) are also provided...although, I read somewhere that they are not quite accurate.

 

I have no idea whether they are to be paid attention to or ignored. --But the science is interesting nonetheless.

 

--What I can't get my head around is the following.

 

One takes off into the wind. I get that--as per Bernoulli.

 

1.But, do planes land with the wind at their back? (?) I don't understand the science behind this--or whether if it, indeed, is accurate. --I trust ED's expertise over my stab-in-the-dark layman's guesstimate... but... something doesn't seem right about that..

 

Also...

 

2.Why are PAPI's at only one side of, say, Batumi airstrip and not the other?

 

"you are above glide path"

"you are below glide path"

"you are on glide path"

looks like the GCA sound file are there right ?

 

I think these will be used for the LSO when they implement the next fixed-wing aircraft. :smilewink:

[nomdeplume]

But, do planes land with the wind at their back? (?)

 

No, aircraft land facing into the wind, same direction as they'd take off. When landing, you want to be going as slow as possible (relative to the ground) at touchdown. Landing into a headwind gives you additional lift than you'd otherwise get at the same groundspeed in calm conditions.

 

As far as I know this should always happen in the sim, except at the airports that don't support changing the runway direction based on the wind. However if the wind changes within the game I don't think the airport would switch ends. (Not sure if the dynamic weather can actually cause variations in wind direction at the same location over time, so this is probably moot.)

[mooshim]

copy that, thanks NDP!

 

As I whine about minutiae at my keyboard, some one in Moscow is hard at work coding through the wee hours of the morning...

[Tord Hoppe]

2.Why are PAPI's at only one side of, say, Batumi airstrip and not the other?

 

Standardisation, no need to have them on both sides so just stick them to one side and kepp it the same all over the world.

Why left? Can´t swear if there is a specific reason for that, but in most (all?) dual pilot cockpits the Captain sits on the left. Again, I have no clue if there is a connection. A standard landing patterns has you making left hand turns, again making it easier for the left hand pilot to have a visual contact with the field...

[Thor77]

No, aircraft land facing into the wind, same direction as they'd take off. When landing, you want to be going as slow as possible (relative to the ground) at touchdown. Landing into a headwind gives you additional lift than you'd otherwise get at the same groundspeed in calm conditions.

 

As far as I know this should always happen in the sim, except at the airports that don't support changing the runway direction based on the wind. However if the wind changes within the game I don't think the airport would switch ends. (Not sure if the dynamic weather can actually cause variations in wind direction at the same location over time, so this is probably moot.)

 

Well I am ATCO and worked as a tower controller earlier in my career. Runway in use for landing was most of the time the one with ILS installed and had a secondary NDB approach possible. This changed only when the tail wind reached speeds of 10kts and more and on pilots request, "circle to land" manuevers were implemented. Departing runway is/was used depending on the traffic situation but again 10kts tailwind is generally the limit. Of course pilot has the last word.

 

What I would really love to see in DCS regarding ATC is the following:

- request other runway

- request weather information

- call out mayday or panpan emergencies

 

I find myself more often than not approaching the airfield with more holes in the plane then you can find in swiss ementaler cheese and when I contact the ATC they send me the opposite way of the airfield for landing, while I can barely hold the stricken aircraft in the air...

[mooshim]

2.Why are PAPI's at only one side of, say, Batumi airstrip and not the other?

 

Standardisation, no need to have them on both sides so just stick them to one side and kepp it the same all over the world.

Why left? Can´t swear if there is a specific reason for that, but in most (all?) dual pilot cockpits the Captain sits on the left. Again, I have no clue if there is a connection. A standard landing patterns has you making left hand turns, again making it easier for the left hand pilot to have a visual contact with the field...

 

Thanks!...I actually misspoke before... I meant "one end" rather than "one side" of the landing strip.

 

--and English, is my first language...:cry:

 

EDIT

 

I see my Q. has been answered.

 

Well I am ATCO and worked as a tower controller earlier in my career. Runway in use for landing was most of the time the one with ILS installed and had a secondary NDB approach possible.

 

Very interesting.

 

--THANKS and welcome to the forums

Edited March 14, 2011 by mooshim

[REL]

Well I am ATCO and worked as a tower controller earlier in my career. Runway in use for landing was most of the time the one with ILS installed and had a secondary NDB approach possible. This changed only when the tail wind reached speeds of 10kts and more and on pilots request, "circle to land" manuevers were implemented. Departing runway is/was used depending on the traffic situation but again 10kts tailwind is generally the limit. Of course pilot has the last word.

 

What I would really love to see in DCS regarding ATC is the following:

- request other runway

- request weather information

- call out mayday or panpan emergencies

 

I find myself more often than not approaching the airfield with more holes in the plane then you can find in swiss ementaler cheese and when I contact the ATC they send me the opposite way of the airfield for landing, while I can barely hold the stricken aircraft in the air...

 

I think those are great ideas - you should get them on the wish list:

http://forums.eagle.ru/forumdisplay.php?f=147

[Thor77]

Thanks guys! Adding the suggestions now!

[LiveBait]

i recall hearing the "taxi to parking area" in FC2 if you stopped on the runway after landing. Tower politely telling you to move along.

+1 for the emergency landing call