KLaFaille Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Well I suppose I'll jump into the fray with my own take on a pit. I've never built anything like this before and I really don't know what I'm doing, but there are a bunch of people out there way smarter than me who I'm hoping won't mind having their brains picked now and then. :) Instrument Panel - 15MAR11 by KLaFaille, on Flickr Here's what I've come up with so far, after a few hours fiddling, for the Instrument panel. Right now I'm treating this as if it started out as a 39x18x2 inch plate of 6063 aluminum and it's being machined down. Once I get more concrete measurements I'll adjust it to a more economical and reasonable means of construction. For grins, a block of 6063 the size I mentioned would weigh 136.95 pounds and cost between $1800 - $2000 USD. That panel if it were machined right now as is, weighs 14.605 pounds. Talk about wasted material and cost! This will more likely end up regular sheet aluminum that I'll laser cut I'll add the steps for the instruments to. More to come. Keith - "Red"
pitbldr Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Very nice start! :thumbup: By the way, I'll need to charge you royalties for using the following statement... I've never built anything like this before and I really don't know what I'm doing, but there are a bunch of people out there way smarter than me who I'm hoping won't mind having their brains picked now and then. I really need that in my signature. :D
Duckling Posted March 15, 2011 Posted March 15, 2011 Hi Red. That pan is a good start, congrats. Looking forward to see your progress. Can't agree on the statment about "not knowing" though. You sure seem to be in control :-) I'm using Alu also (3 mm flat currently) but if cashflow increases, plan is to have the mid sections cut in blocks and and then TIG'ed to main panel. - - - -
KLaFaille Posted March 15, 2011 Author Posted March 15, 2011 Thanks! I stumbled across a few .rar archives last night that contained a bunch of useful info in them, a couple of which are actually what I believe are your SW models for the A model IP, Duckling. I used a bunch of dims off that, adjusted to imperial, for reference on my IP and WAG'd the rest until the parts I have in the mail arrive. I was thinking of how I'll implement the MFCDs and what I'll do is hack a pair of Thrustmaster MFDs for the control boards and use switches sourced elsewhere and a custom PCB interfaced to them. That will give true plug and play functionality fairly easily. The control boards can be mounted either in the MFCD bezel or off board and connected via a header on the custom PCB. Red
KLaFaille Posted March 17, 2011 Author Posted March 17, 2011 New panel for the pit arrived today, a real C-6280A(P)/APX IFF Transponder Set. It's in wonderful condition, very little wear on the plate and knobs and everything works like it should, mechanically at least. I don't have the ability to test it electrically yet, but I have little doubts that it is electrically sound. The switches are really quite beefy, and please ignore the tape in the video, the locking action on the rotaries is very stiff and I needed a third hand. :) Attached are a bunch of photos for reference, the TM for the panel, and a video showing the positions of all the various knobs and switches. Follow the photos through for the full size images on my photostream. C-6280A(P)/APX IFF Transponder (1 of 9).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr C-6280A(P)/APX IFF Transponder (3 of 9).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr C-6280A(P)/APX IFF Transponder (4 of 9).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr C-6280A(P)/APX IFF Transponder (5 of 9).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr C-6280A(P)/APX IFF Transponder (6 of 9).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr C-6280A(P)/APX IFF Transponder (7 of 9).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr C-6280A(P)/APX IFF Transponder (8 of 9).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr (THANK YOU LORD for these being front release pins. I really, really, REALLY, don't like rear release pins. :evil:) C-6280A(P)/APX IFF Transponder (9 of 9).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr TECH MANUAL: http://www.tpub.com/content/radiosets/TM-11-5841-268-23P/TM-11-5841-268-23P0001.htm Enjoy, Red
KLaFaille Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 5ET11 More bits came in today, 12 5ET11 magnetically held switches. Add 28 volts DC across pins 4 and 5 and the switch is held in the closed position. Remove the voltage and it snaps open automatically. It can be manually overridden, and with no voltage acts as an (ON)-OFF SPST. The A-10 uses six of these switches, four on the SAS panel for the Pitch and Yaw engage switches, one for anti-skid switch, and one for the Anti-Collision lighting switch on the lighting panel. 5ET11 (1 of 3).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr 5ET11 (2 of 3).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr 5ET11 (3 of 3).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr 1
Conure Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Looks awesome, best of luck with it! Wish I had the skills for this kind've stuff...! Intel i7 6700k, Asus GTX1070, 16gb DDR4 @ 3200mhz, CH Fighterstick, CH Pro Throttle, CH Pro Rudder Pedals, Samsung Evo 850 SSD @ 500GB * 2, TrackIR 5 and 27" monitor running at 2560 * 1440, Windows 10.
hog_driver111th Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 Where do you get parts like these? I've tried looking around for anything real, but can't seem to find anything. A-10C - FC3 - CA - L-39 - UH1 - P-51 - Hawk - BS2 - F-86 - Gazelle - F-5E - AV8B - F/A-18C i5-4590 - GTX 1060 - Oculus CV1 - TM:Warthog [sIGPIC]http://forums.eagle.ru/signaturepics/sigpic9979_1.gif[/sIGPIC]
KLaFaille Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 Ebay has literally thousands of parts for sale, you just have to sort through the garbage to find what you need, and hope you can get it for the right amount of money. That IFF I overpaid on, due to my own impatience and "gotta have it now" factor. The switches I found on a site that sells surplus .mil electronics and they were priced very nicely, especially considering MSRP from Honeywell is between 700-900 a switch! The biggest thing is the research involved, and sifting through all the garbage to find what info you actually need. That part of it isn't easy and it is incredibly tedious and frustrating at times. I swear I'll be able to recite NSN and MIL numbers back verbatim, in my sleep, soon. Red
KLaFaille Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 A small update on the Instrument Panel. After researching the HSI and ADI on my own and with help from Deadman, I've tweaked the center of the IP to reflect the sizes of the real parts. Also did a little work on the HSI and made a quick and rough front plate for the ADI. I'm trying to get everything as close as possible to reality, but of course there will have to be compromises. I'll be the first to admit that I can get anal when it comes to this sort of thing and I have to remind myself to step back and realize sometimes close enough will have to do. Instrument Panel - 18MAR11 by KLaFaille, on Flick I also worked on an UFC design which uses surface mount 10mmx10mm tactile switches, and standoff / panel mounted (ON)-OFF-(ON) rockers. These are all commercial switches which can be easily ordered off Mouser or Digi-Key, and once mounted on a custom PCB and wired and wired into a USB controller would make a handy plug and play solution for the UFC. Problem is, now that I'm looking for the info I seem to have misplaced the part and spec numbers for these. :doh: I plan on going with pitbldr's UFC anyway, but I'll still try to find the info on these again just for reference or if anyone wants them. UFC - 18MAR11 by KLaFaille, on Flickr UFC - REAR - 18MAR11 by KLaFaille, on Flickr Red
y2kiah Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 I've figured 5.25W x 5.5H for the ADI and 5.25W x 4.25H for the HSI from sketches of the instruments. Are those dimensions accurate? I'm also looking to be as accurate as possible on these. Thanks for your help, I'm sure others will appreciate this information too.
KLaFaille Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 The HSI is 4.25"h by 5.00"w while the ADI is 5.00"w by 5.25"h. There isn't much on either side of the center steps, I have the width set at 5.1" right now which leaves .065 of material or so for the side walls of the steps. Here's the dims for the HSI http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1141871&postcount=91 Red 1
y2kiah Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 ah ok thanks for the clarification, from DM's post I thought he said the can was 5 wide and the bezel was .25 wider. My steps are 5.25 wide so this will leave 1/8" on each side, maybe a bit too much but it will work out without a redesign. Thanks!
KLaFaille Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 Been working on the AAU-34 Altimeter. If I can't a real one of these I'll make it myself and drive it with aircores and servos. Real one is almost if not impossible to get to work without a real A-10 in your backyard. ;) AAU34A Housing - Front - 18MAR11 by KLaFaille, on Flickr AAU34A Housing - Rear - 18MAR11 by KLaFaille, on Flickr
KLaFaille Posted March 18, 2011 Author Posted March 18, 2011 ah ok thanks for the clarification, from DM's post I thought he said the can was 5 wide and the bezel was .25 wider. My steps are 5.25 wide so this will leave 1/8" on each side, maybe a bit too much but it will work out without a redesign. Thanks! Sure thing bud, Without real concrete measurements here, I think the best we can do is work together and guestimate to the best of our abilities the sizes and dimensions of the instruments. This is nostalgic, it's like the early days when even the F16 pit guys were out there looking for info, it does get better with time. :)
Duckling Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) ...Without real concrete measurements here... Hi Red. With your pace of progress it's hard for an oldie just to get time to read the updates (very nice pics btw) What measurement do you search for ? /Gus Edited March 18, 2011 by Duckling - - - -
Duckling Posted March 18, 2011 Posted March 18, 2011 (edited) Hey Red. Got a hunch you know it already but to avoid any mistakes, those Magswitchitches you got (congrats, a very nice catch), make sure you get that diode cross poles in place (I see it on at lest one of the switches on the "group pic"). Without it, the switch produce a large voltage "spike" when released, causing a havoc on the IF boards I'm running mine on 12 V, so a regular PC Voltage supply probably be sufficient without going to MIL levels. Can't say for yours though /Gus Edited March 19, 2011 by Duckling - - - -
KLaFaille Posted March 19, 2011 Author Posted March 19, 2011 Hey Red. Got a hunch you know it already but to avoid any mistakes, those Magswitchitches you got (congrats, a very nice catch), make sure you get that capacitor cross poles in place (I see it on at lest one of the switches on the "group pic"). Without it, the switch produce a large voltage "spike" when released, causing a havoc on the IF boards I'm running mine on 12 V, so a regular PC Voltage supply probably be sufficient without going to MIL levels. Can't say for yours though /Gus Thanks for the info Gus. Actually I'm totally out of my league when it comes to the electrical side of things. Apart from basic, and I mean basic wiring and switch interfacing, it's greek to me right now. I did read that the mag switches sometimes work from as little as 8vdc, but I don't have an available DC power supply to test anything right now. Speaking of which, do you have any recommendations on a Benchtop Powersupply that's worth it salt but won't break the bank? Are there any reasonable ones that supply both AC and DC voltage? I figure I want up to at least 28V DC and three or more amps for testing and playing with circuits, but I could be wrong? Red
KLaFaille Posted March 19, 2011 Author Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) Yet more stuff. ;) A Vertical Speed (Velocity) Indicator showed up today. This is the correct bezel and size needed for the pit. It's air operated, so that will have to go bye-bye, and I have to change the dial to read "CLIMB" instead of IVSI. Its in great shape considering it's 3 years older than I am. VVI (1 of 3).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr VVI (2 of 3).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr VVI (3 of 3).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr Also got in 10 of these ST42G momentary (ON)-OFF-(ON) switches. These have a really have action to them, and are all brand new old surplus. They have never been out of the bags and I couldn't pass them up for about 2 or 3 bucks a switch. They'll come in handy for something I'm sure. Misc Switch Stuff (3 of 3).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr Finally, just a couple pics of a BU0836X USB controller card from Leo Bodnar. I quickly wired up this panel to play around with the card, it's basically the Aux Avionics Panel, but I put a pushbutton for the master caution on there. This is also about the extent of my electrical knowledge right now. Excuse the ghetto crimps and toasty heat shrink, I had to make due with what was on hand in the scrap box.;) Misc Switch Stuff (1 of 3).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr Misc Switch Stuff (2 of 3).jpg by KLaFaille, on Flickr Red Edited March 19, 2011 by KLaFaille
Duckling Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) Hi Red I was wrong :-/ about "capacitor" Turned out it's diodes instead to be used, hehe , sorry You find a solution in the first thread below, second for more info Check: http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=4583.0 http://www.viperpits.org/smf/index.php?topic=5902.0 I got 4 connected currently on my SAS panel. 12V source for the coil triggerd by 4 outputs from a Mastercard. Switch position controlled by 8 inputports on same Mastercard http://strandedduckling.com/HOGBOX_SAS_4.JPG http://strandedduckling.com/L06_SAS_PCB_connection_schema.jpg I got an old "no-name" PC powersupply for testing the quads (+5 and +12 Volts) Cheers Gus Edited March 19, 2011 by Duckling 1 - - - -
KLaFaille Posted March 19, 2011 Author Posted March 19, 2011 Thanks Gus, that's excellent information. I would have had no idea to do that, but it does make perfect sense. Did a bit more in SW, so here's an early morning update of the I; added the side steps for the VVI, ALT, RWR, and ACCEL, and Modeled the VVI Bezel. Instrument Panel - 19MAR11 by KLaFaille, on Flickr Red
Duckling Posted March 19, 2011 Posted March 19, 2011 Must getting to familuar to the A version :doh: . Just realised that the "pole" on your instrument pan lower left side is missing, the segment isolating the AHCP and the pan with clock, standby ADI, UHF display and AoA. Might been stated above in the thread though. (or you probably aware of it allready) cheers Gus - - - -
KLaFaille Posted March 20, 2011 Author Posted March 20, 2011 Right you are Gus. It's one of the things I haven't quite got to yet. Trying to get the center stack dimensioned out as best as possible is certainly taking some time. Then again I can't leave well enough alone, so I've tweaked it more times than I can count at this point. ;) I figure that frame and panel are about five inches or so, I'll have to measure it to scale and get a rough guestimate. Red
KLaFaille Posted March 20, 2011 Author Posted March 20, 2011 Small update for today. Redid the cutout for the engine instrumentation and made the plate that the clamps mount to. Also modeled the light posts for each instrument. I'm going to redo the fuel panel, LG cutouts now that I have the gauges in place. The gauges themselves weren't much of a problem fitting in the space, but making sure there was clearance for the instrument clamp mounting hardware took some time and is what caused the do over. Instrument Panel - 1 - 20MAR11 by KLaFaille, on Flickr Instrument Panel - 2 - 20MAR11 by KLaFaille, on Flickr On the actual physically building something side of things, I have a Fluke 179 and a 0-30VDC 5A bench power supply on the way, so if I don't report in after the middle of next week, I've probably electrocuted myself. :D Red
y2kiah Posted March 20, 2011 Posted March 20, 2011 Great work, your modelling skills are very good. Take another look at the steps on the front panel, there are more variations in height than you have in there now. You probably know and haven't gotten to that yet though.
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