What if the R-27EA ...

[GGTharos]

this is the very radar that the 29S uses in FC2.

 

Nope ... at least it doesn't looks like that's the radar it uses (and yes, there is even a movie of that particular radar being tested for two target engagement). The 29S in game seems to be using a modified N019 capable of operating the R-77, but all the other goodies are missing in a very blatant way (symbology is different for target tracking etc).

[Frostie]

Nope ... at least it doesn't looks like that's the radar it uses (and yes, there is even a movie of that particular radar being tested for two target engagement). The 29S in game seems to be using a modified N019 capable of operating the R-77, but all the other goodies are missing in a very blatant way (symbology is different for target tracking etc).

RTFM :thumbup::D

[Pilotasso]

Whats your point ? Show me an aircraft built in the early 80's off the production line that could fire medium range ARH ?

 

Also please show me some information that points to the N-019M TOPAZ not engaging two targets at the same time using TWS, every piece of info I can find says otherwise, this is the very radar that the 29S uses in FC2.

The Slot array version (N019) is unable which is the base 29A radar.

 

the point is, that his vision of having Mig-29S firing multiple R-77's at different targets in LOMAC cant be done except in HAWX maybe.

[Frostie]

the point is, that Zokis vision of having Mig-29S firing multiple R-77's at different targets in LOMAC cant be done except in HAWX maybe.

You need a reason to go with that statement.

 

The MiG-29S is fitted with the N-019M, nothing less, this radar can fire at 2 targets simultaneously. FC2's MiG-29S carries the required weapon to do this, the R-77. Surely your issue is with the avaliability of the missile and not what the radar should be able to do?

 

The 29S in game seems to be using a modified N019 capable of operating the R-77, but all the other goodies are missing in a very blatant way (symbology is different for target tracking etc).

 

FC2's MiG-29S uses the N-019M, its on page 141 of the manual and also listed in the data files as an N-019M.

Maybe all this missing bumpf should have been looked at in the patch but I guess more important planes needed sorting. :D

Edited May 6, 2011 by Frostie

[Presing]

off from the factory, no they didnt. Only after extensive modifications.

India upgraded their mig-29A's but they retained almost nothing from the A or S variants except the hulls.

Same for the few SMT's rejected by Algeria, or the Mig-29N of malaysia.

 

The original Mig-29A and S variants can only shoot 1 R-27R at only 1 target at a time.

 

Yes all factory airplanes was MiG-29A but they use air-frame (because it's a perfect airframe :)) for upgrade's. So MiG-29S (Airframe is old all another stuff is new, especially radar) have TWS with possibility of engage two targets in same time. MiG-29S never be on factory line because they are not new airplanes all of them are upgrades. It's about radar not all aircraft.

[Pilotasso]

N019 is OLD even by Russian standards.

 

The N019 is a cassegrain antenna and not enough processing capability (all of it analogue). Infact it had worse problems than that. Like insufficient range and poor look down capability.

[GGTharos]

More like whatever's written in the manual, you're stuck with the stock radar. I'm sure I understand the reasons behind the capability not being patched in, and it has nothing to do with more or less important planes. But hey, I wouldn't be adverse to adding in the poor mig's radar death due to ECM, either :D

 

FC2's MiG-29S uses the N-019M, its on page 141 of the manual and also listed in the data files as an N-019M.

Maybe all this missing bumpf should have been looked at in the patch but I guess more important planes needed sorting. :D

[Pilotasso]

Yes all factory airplanes was MiG-29A but they use air-frame (because it's a perfect airframe :)) for upgrade's. So MiG-29S (Airframe is old all another stuff is new, especially radar) have TWS with possibility of engage two targets in same time. MiG-29S never be on factory line because they are not new airplanes all of them are upgrades. It's about radar not all aircraft.

 

Was not discussing that, however Russia actually did built original Mig-29S from factory. Those were the 9-13S hunchbacks and less than 40 were built and were scattered among Ex Soviet states after the breakup. By then the R-77 was also put on ice.

 

Subsequently Mig-29A's were upgraded in small increments to S standards however they were not fully converted and the chances that they allocated money for TWS multi shot capability modification at the time that the budget was starved is very very unlikely specially considering the absence of those missiles.

[FLANKERATOR]

More like whatever's written in the manual, you're stuck with the stock radar.

 

Is the "Stock F-15 radar" able to deal with 120's, without mentioning C5?

[GGTharos]

The Stock F-15C radar? It can. There were initial capability increases with the MSIP program that upgraded the A's and the C's as well at regular intervals. FC2 represents a radar that's more like a powerpoint presentation to unclassified persons than what the radar could really do ... even in '89.

 

Be happy your MiG can shoot R-77's. There are issues well outside of anyone's control right now that affect what is modeled on those planes.

 

Is the "Stock F-15 radar" able to deal with 120's, without mentioning C5?

[Pilotasso]

Is the "Stock F-15 radar" able to deal with 120's, without mentioning C5?

 

It will be easier to conclude that the migs can have the TWS mode but without the R-77, because thats where youll end up if you want to be rigorous. And that without necessarily dismiss the C5 altogether. So careful what you wish for. ;)

 

EDIT:

The Stock F-15C radar? It can. There were initial capability increases with the MSIP program that upgraded the A's and the C's as well at regular intervals. FC2 represents a radar that's more like a powerpoint presentation to unclassified persons than what the radar could really do ... even in '89.

 

Be happy your MiG can shoot R-77's. There are issues well outside of anyone's control right now that affect what is modeled on those planes.

 

 

what he said Flankerator. ;)

Edited May 6, 2011 by Pilotasso

[FLANKERATOR]

The Stock F-15C radar? It can. There were initial capability increases with the MSIP program that upgraded the A's and the C's as well at regular intervals. FC2 represents a radar that's more like a powerpoint presentation to unclassified persons than what the radar could really do ... even in '89.

 

Be happy your MiG can shoot R-77's. There are issues well outside of anyone's control right now that affect what is modeled on those planes.

 

Am more interested to know if the F-15C radar as it came out of factory the FIRST time had ability to use AIM-120 missile? because AFAIK the eagle was using sparrows and sidewinders for an extensive period of time before being able to fit the AIM120.

[GGTharos]

It had some. The AMRAAM suffered quite a few delays, and the F-15 was ready for AMRAAM before AMRAAM was ready for the F-15. I don't recall the exact timeline of radar upgrades, but F-15C's were rolling out with MSIP capability out of the factory by the time the MiG-29A entered service.

 

Am more interested to know if the F-15C radar as it came out of factory the FIRST time had ability to use AIM-120 missile? because AFAIK the eagle was using sparrows and sidewinders for an extensive period of time before being able to fit the AIM120.

[FLANKERATOR]

So why 15C's were going CAP's over Iraq with sparrows and sidewinders only??

[GGTharos]

Because the AMRAAM wasn't in service. It was supposed to be in service 6-7 years before it was accepted.

 

So why 15C's were going CAP's over Iraq with sparrows and sidewinders only??

[FLANKERATOR]

Well, it's kind of strange to get a slammer ready aircraft with the missile itself being on the development stage...I mean how can you anticipate a perfect radar/missile match prior to the AMRAAM's IOC...

[GGTharos]

Because its IOC was expected quite a bit earlier, and so the aircraft were ready for it. Two independent development efforts.

[VAOZoky]

Does rusians have R77 today? And why not upgrade Migs and Sus in some unoficial patch( i dont know if there is upgrade for f15, but if there is u can add it too). Then we can have all hypothetical scenarios we want:thumbup: Devs abandoned FC2 so its up to us to make it better. See u on sky mates:pilotfly:

[FLANKERATOR]

Because its IOC was expected quite a bit earlier, and so the aircraft were ready for it. Two independent development efforts.

 

 

Any information regarding the reasons behind the missile delay?

[GGTharos]

There are a lot of things that could be added for F-15 too.

 

Anyway, in general the SFM planes in FC2 are based on old code, and upgrading them is NOT easy. I am certain that ED prefer to spend time/effort/money on DCS aircraft instead.

 

Does rusians have R77 today? And why not upgrade Migs and Sus in some unoficial patch( i dont know if there is upgrade for f15, but if there is u can add it too). Then we can have all hypothetical scenarios we want:thumbup: Devs abandoned FC2 so its up to us to make it better. See u on sky mates:pilotfly:

[GGTharos]

Yep, it was basically new and risky technology, as well as expensive so it had both natural and political enemies :)

 

Essentially they needed to get all that tech right - eg. ARH had never been miniaturized to that level, the missiles themselves had some platform integration issues as well, etc etc. The missile was basically very challenging to develop.

 

I don't know if there are good, detailed accounts of what happened that are public.

 

Any information regarding the reasons behind the missile delay?

[VAOZoky]

Do u know if devs are going to release DCS:USFWA beta1 in Q4 2011? I need some kerosene in my blood :helpsmilie:

[GGTharos]

I can tell you it is being worked on and they want to release it ASAP, but no predictions on timing.

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

The Stock F-15C radar? It can.

AN/APG 63 could not. That was original radar, even on F-15C right? AMRAAM capability was introduced after MSIP II, when AN/APG 70 was installed in all new C models and as update to all A and existing C models.

 

Reminder: SAM = Stealth STOP!

[4c Hajduk Veljko]

Am more interested to know if the F-15C radar as it came out of factory the FIRST

Original F-15C had AN/APG 63 radar and could not use AMRAAM.