Survivability

[Dark-Light]

Hey there, was just wondering what was up with the survivability of Hinds in this sim vs ground based AA. I am currently all but useless at BS, but found something that I thought was not quite right. The ground based AA missiles fired at the helis in the quick start mission seem to do almost nothing to them. I've reloaded several times to observe the results - which do change - but never result in a Hind going down. I've witnessed most things from superficial damage, to having a wing stub ripped off, but nothing more, and whichever one is hit seems to carry on as if nothing was wrong. So I guess my question is how survivable are missile hits to these helicopters? According to this mission at least it would seem 100% Thanks for your thoughts :)

[Jona33]

I'm fairly sure they are only stinger missiles. I've taken several of them in BS before having to punch out or land. Unless you suffer a direct hit then the helis will probably be OK. As far as I know the hind is also a tough helicopter, I think. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bee_Sting]

well that depends on if the missile was a direct hit or not! it can be scripted that way in the quick start missions also. your best bet is to create you own missions and set the AI settings to exellent and then you will see a difference. the hind is a hard nut to crack like what jona said. also it depends on what type missile that makes contact with the hind.

Edited July 20, 2011 by Bee_Sting

[RodrigoMF_BR]

In Quick Start Mission, i stay hovering above woods at 9:00h of my start point, using Vikhr until clean AAA and armor.

 

After that i will fly over objective and destroy the convoy.

[GGTharos]

There's probably an issue with the heli damage model. Stingers are pretty good at taking helis down.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PA0Sia9fwM

Edited July 20, 2011 by GGTharos

[RodrigoMF_BR]

I went go down several times by just one Stinger.

[Dark-Light]

Interesting, like I say, its one of the missiles fired at the beginning of the quickstart - I don't know what type it is, it just seems less than effective at killing the Hinds. I saw one take 2 direct hits and fly off - which I thought was a little bizarre for AA missiles which I generally percieved to be 1 shot 1 kill weapons.

[GGTharos]

Probably a heli damage model issue.

[Migow]

hi ,the igla-S (s24) Russian say it has 50 % probabilities to hit when the target use flare

in dcs black-shark it is just a sa 16 gimlet or stinger ,even if i use flare at 012(early) , they can lock me(that should not be possible) they have a better ratio to hit than the igla-S , something is wrong in the game:(

 

i found that 042 work but 012 should work too?

Edited July 30, 2011 by Fifou265

[sobek]

Once the missiles are locked on, i'm pretty sure they have a better hit propability than 50%.

[Migow]

Once the missiles are locked on, i'm pretty sure they have a better hit propability than 50%.

 

yeah it should be , i don't remember where i see this ratio but i think that was an russian official pdf info

 

the problem is that manpad can lock you when you release flare they should only do that when there no flare near the chopper

what is the type of flare model Pyrophoric flares?

Pyrotechnic flares?

etc..

if it's modernized flare then manpad can only lock when the target is free from flares

Edited July 30, 2011 by Fifou265

[EtherealN]

Unless the manpad has an imaging seeker?

 

Not my area of expertise, but saying that they'd be unable to lock as a blanket statement seems a wee bit too simplistic for me.

[Migow]

Unless the manpad has an imaging seeker?

 

Not my area of expertise, but saying that they'd be unable to lock as a blanket statement seems a wee bit too simplistic for me.

 

you mean last generation missile ? in that case they should be immune to actual countermeasure

 

but we are talking sa16 gimlet in dcs blackshark how the missile know which target to lock if in the air there are a chopper and flares(modern Pyrotechnic flares)?

modern flare have same spectrum emission than chopper.

 

sa16 has low counter countermeasure it's not sa18 or sa 24.

in fact even if flare are launched too late flare should work ,maybe 50% ?

 

another question how much time it takes too lock target , i mean the manpad aim target , then how much time it takes before you have a lock?

5 sec? if the target is not stable i mean flare decoying then you can't lock you need a "stable lock"?

Edited July 30, 2011 by Fifou265

[Jona33]

in fact even if flare are launched too late flare should work ,maybe 50% ?

 

Works in game most of the time. Either that or the guidance system breaks.

 

I'd have thought that releasing flares when the missile is closer would actually be more effective because it's closer to the heat from the flares. Especially next to a heli engine rather than a fighter's engine with full AB. But I don't know much so I may have made a mistake here.

[Migow]

Works in game most of the time. Either that or the guidance system breaks.

 

I'd have thought that releasing flares when the missile is closer would actually be more effective because it's closer to the heat from the flares. Especially next to a heli engine rather than a fighter's engine with full AB. But I don't know much so I may have made a mistake here.

i don't know^^

sa16 has low counter countermeasures maybe it could work IRL?

but stinger ,should be very difficult to fool

the only problem in game is early flare that should prevent lock before launch missile , it doesn't work...

 

is" locking onto the sun "should work ? i mean sa 16 could be fool with sun?

 

another problem is tree they don't protect against LOS from ai if you fly very low, it would be difficult to manpad to have time to lock target because of occlusion

they said they could not do physics collision for ai because they need to rewrite the pathfinder code.but could make just physic collision for ka50 and loss of los for ai which could make the greater

in fact in game i seen ai travel trough building so physic collision is bad excuse^^

 

are the ka 50 aspect change something like iRL for IR homing in the game?

 

lowering the collective , which lower the engine thrust could have an impact on ir homing in the game?

i need answer ^^ thx

Edited July 30, 2011 by Fifou265

[GGTharos]

IR seeker FoV is tiny. the closer it gets, the faster flares leave its FoV, if they appear in it at all.

 

I'd have thought that releasing flares when the missile is closer would actually be more effective because it's closer to the heat from the flares. Especially next to a heli engine rather than a fighter's engine with full AB. But I don't know much so I may have made a mistake here.

[Jona33]

OK never mind them. I proved I'm an idiot. Yay. :lol: :megalol:

[RIPTIDE]

i don't know^^

sa16 has low counter countermeasures maybe it could work IRL?

but stinger ,should be very difficult to fool

the only problem in game is early flare that should prevent lock before launch missile , it doesn't work...

 

is" locking onto the sun "should work ? i mean sa 16 could be fool with sun?

 

another problem is tree they don't protect against LOS from ai if you fly very low, it would be difficult to manpad to have time to lock target because of occlusion

they said they could not do physics collision for ai because they need to rewrite the pathfinder code.but could make just physic collision for ka50 and loss of los for ai which could make the greater

in fact in game i seen ai travel trough building so physic collision is bad excuse^^

 

are the ka 50 aspect change something like iRL for IR homing in the game?

 

lowering the collective , which lower the engine thrust could have an impact on ir homing in the game?

i need answer ^^ thx

Not sure what Manpad these guys are using, but seemed very effective. Chopper fell apart.

 

[GGTharos]

Helicopter engines usually maintain a steady rpm ... so lowering collective won`t do anything.

 

lowering the collective , which lower the engine thrust could have an impact on ir homing in the game?

i need answer ^^ thx

[Migow]

Helicopter engines usually maintain a steady rpm ... so lowering collective won`t do anything.

 

early flare drop isn't effective in the game even 012 something broken?

 

how much time is needed to lock target with manpad?IRL

[Migow]

Riptide

where do you see flare?

i 'm talking about effectiveness with flare

[GGTharos]

You expect too much from simulated sensors and countermeasures for now.

[Migow]

You expect too much from simulated sensors and countermeasures for now.

 

if IRL early drop flare are useful then we are disadvantaged again in this game , thing become more difficult :doh: