Man vs Auto Lasing?

[lobo]

Hi wondering what are the advantages of LGB manual lasing vs auto? I mean, other than buddy lasing, why would you not always use auto lasing? Comments?

[shu77]

I know there are some instances where firing a laser from time of launch can create an undershoot situation as the bomb spends momentum chasing the beam. I figure though if you are lasing something like a blackshark which has a LWR on board its going to get all kinds of crazy going off in its cockpit to warn it about being painted, similarly with a newer tank, so it might IRL lead to earlier evasive action from a target then you were wanting.

[recofsky_sergio]

Not always the one who drops the bomb has to be illuminated with the laser. The JTAC can do it too.

[Speed]

The issue of bomb undershoot due to early lasing is WAY overblown, at least in context to a level CCRP release of a GBU-12 in the default flight path mode (OPT, right?), from a decent altitude. You should never experience a GBU-12 undershoot problem, at least in an A-10 with a level release in this default mode, from like 10k+ feet, as the bomb gets most of its energy from falling nearly straight down anyway. The A-10 is just too goddamn slow for it to really matter. Furthermore, the default (OPT?) mode has the bomb initially on a ballistic path to overshoot the target. By the time the bomb noses over and "sees" the laser, it will be falling nearly straight down, and it might be only 15-30 seconds before impact anyway.

 

Undershoot is likely to become more troublesome to faster aircraft, as the bomb will be released much further from the target and will need to conserve its initial kinetic energy to cover the extra distance.

 

Undershoot could also become a problem if you release the bomb from too low an altitude, but even when I have occasionally released GBU-12s from an abnormally low altitude, like 8k feet, they have still hit the mark, and I always manually lase from the time of bomb release.

 

However, auto lasing is VERY MUCH questionable as a good tactic, at least, IMO. If you autolase, you will frequently miss moving targets with GBU-12s. When attacking movers with GBU-12s, you want to drop from high altitude and lase for as long as possible. With autolase, by the time the laser turns on, the moving target can very well be completely out of the bomb's field of view.

 

Also, though this is less of an issue, auto lase lets a dumb, potentially buggy computer do the important work of lasing. I recently experienced a countdown "error" on one of my targets, when I had multiple weapons in flight. I had dropped a GBU-12, and as the weapon was falling, I was engaging another nearby target with the Maverick, and when I launched the Mav, it reset the countdown timer, which is probably correct avionics behavior. Who knows what that would have done if I had been auto lasing? How attentively have ED programmed auto lase in respect to lasing at the correct times when multiple weapons are in flight? Maybe even the real A-10 is not programmed to handle this situation correctly, as pilots really probably aren't supposed to have done what I did.

 

So in the end, I think it's just wiser to use manual lasing. If you are above 15k feet, or engaging moving targets, just turn the laser on from the moment the bomb is dropped. Even below 15k feet, you should be safe to turn on the laser from the moment the bomb is dropped, I have never, EVER seen a bomb miss due to early lasing causing it to use all its energy, and I am a big GBU-12 fan. I have dropped A LOT of them.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Speed

[Megagoth1702]

You would not use auto-laze to feel more 1337.

 

Other than that and buddy lazing I have no use for manual laze. In DCS A-10 I have never met a vehicle that was being a bitch about being painted. So I always keep my lase time at 15 seconds, works good enuff.

 

Edit: Speed's post just popped up. When I engage a moving vehicle I also manually lase the target using TGP's latch lase function. This really hits tanks etc. on the move, impressive.

Edited November 21, 2011 by Megagoth1702

[Speed]

You would not use auto-laze to feel more 1337.

 

Other than that and buddy lazing I have no use for manual laze. In DCS A-10 I have never met a vehicle that was being a bitch about being painted. So I always keep my lase time at 15 seconds, works good enuff.

 

Set a vehicle to move at like 50 kmh, then, flying in the opposite direction that the vehicle is driving, from like 20k feet, release your GBU-12. It will probably never see the laser. If it does work, then perhaps increase the speed to 60km (most tanks can and sometimes DO drive this fast), and increase your altitude. You will definitely find the unhappy medium where auto lase at 15 sec is inadequate.

 

It is even theoretically possible to imagine a scenario where the bomb misses the target under an auto lase mode because the bomb effectively runs out of energy trying to make a sudden sharp turn too quickly because you lased the target too late. I doubt this is applicable to DCS bomb physics, but you never know...

Edited November 21, 2011 by Speed

[Megagoth1702]

Speed, as you might have not noticed, I edited my post. :) I guess I kept the tab open in FF waaay to long, hehe. You are right about moving vehicles - laze early.

[Wichid]

I've never really seen the need for auto lasing. I think it comes down to laziness in setting the profile up. I just pinky switch at about 14 seconds to fire the laser. I guess I'm not so leet.

[GGTharos]

For moving vehicles: Just aim ahead of the vehicle.

As for 'bomb physics' ... the LGBs in this sim are of the older bang-bang guidance variety. They lose energy fast.

 

Newer paveways use PN, possibly wish some sort of mid-course flight path shaping, are are more like proper glide bombs with an insanely larger attack foot-print than the paveway II's.

[ralfidude]

i have never to date had a problem dropping bombs on moving targets using auto laze as long as you lase for the correct amount of time. I have dropped from 10k and then 25k and same thing, I just adjust the laze time according to my altitude.

 

I see it as your altitude minus 2 to 5, and thats your laze time. So at 18000 i laze for 15, and for 20000 i laze for 15-18, etc and so forth.

[Lobo_63]

Lots of good info! Thanks fellas. I had not thought of the issues involved with plinking moving vehicles. It sounds like auto lasting is good for fixed/stationary targets and manual, longer lasing for the movers. :book:

 

Cheers!:beer:

[Jimmytime]

I typically set the autolase for 12 seconds in the profile, gives me something to do while waiting waiting for 4.0 0.8

[FreeFall]

I prefer autolase. I'm too busy with all those buttons and switches and gauges and... did I mention buttons already? :joystick: :lol: