JTAC and MGRS Grid Zone

[Arkle]

Hi, Does anyone know of a way to get the JTAC to relay the MGRS Grid Zone reference in addition to the regular truncated coordinates he gives you in the 9-line brief? For example, on all of the missions I make with a JTAC, he relays target coordinates minus the Grid Zone, something like "KM 5777 2333". The problem is that in some places on the Georgian map these coordinates could either be in Grid Zone 37T or 38T. If I enter the wrong Grid Zone in the waypoint page the target position is off by hundreds of miles. Can I make the JTAC give the Grid Zone in his 9 line? If not, I'm wondering how you guys normally reconcile this sort of thing during mission planning and/or execution. It would be fairly easy to reference a map of the area with MGRS coordinates (if one knew the approximate target area during mission planning), but I'd really like to be able to make a mission with conditional options, etc., where the JTAC finds targets of opportunity; a CAS mission in which the player doesn't know the exact coordinates of a target beforehand, etc. I obviously haven't been able to sleep, eat, or even have sex worrying about this predicament, so any help would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

[july865]

afaik

it is the responsibility of the pilot to know where he is on the map and where the AFAC is at all times. one issue arrises is that if you are on the edge of 37T/38T, you will have to manually add it.

as far as your sex life is concerned,..... TMI..

[Nu-NRG]

There is a map floating around on this forums that has a 37T/38T border on it. Reference that. But you get used to it fast.

Here is the "Idiot's guide to MGRS" and link to the map here. Also check this post (yap I had same problem).

 

And I think I managed to find a page in CDU the other day, that displayed your current grid (I could be wrong here).

Edited December 18, 2011 by Nu-NRG

[effte]

afaik

it is the responsibility of the pilot to know where he is on the map and where the AFAC is at all times. one issue arrises is that if you are on the edge of 37T/38T, you will have to manually add it.

 

That's incorrect. It is the responsibility of the JTAC, or anyone else giving a MGRS coordinate, to supply the grid zone designator unless it is absolutely certain that it can be omitted without creating any ambiguity whatsoever.

 

It's a bug allright. I wonder if the .lua can be edited, as with the omitted leading zeroes?

[Speed]

That's incorrect. It is the responsibility of the JTAC, or anyone else giving a MGRS coordinate, to supply the grid zone designator unless it is absolutely certain that it can be omitted without creating any ambiguity whatsoever.

 

It's a bug allright. I wonder if the .lua can be edited, as with the omitted leading zeroes?

 

I don't know about the "bug" part, but it looks like it would be very easy to make a mod that gives UTM zone with JTAC coordinates. Is it actually a useful enough mod?

Edited December 18, 2011 by Speed

[effte]

Perhaps "accidental omission" would be a more accurate word to use than "bug"... but then we're getting into philosophy and quite a lot of the bugs found wouldn't be bugs. Now go dig into those .luas and set it straight! The ED community is counting on you... ;)

[Arkle]

My interim solution.....

 

Hey, thanks for all the responses guys. One roundabout solution I have found is to make note of the JTAC's bearing and distance references from the IP to the target - he'll always give you this information in the nine-line. In either EXP1 or EXP2 mode on the TAD, you can then select HOOK CSR mode on the TAD, hook the IP, then run out the JTAC supplied distance and bearing from the IP via the TAD cursor. When your cursor is at the correct bearing and distance from said IP, make a TMS right short MARKPOINT at this position, switch back to HOOK OWN mode, Hook the new Markpoint, and the TAD will finally display correct Grid Zone coordinates at the target vicinity. OMG though, this makes things complicated, lol. Good 'ole EPRS and SADL sure takes the sting out of all this, but that's just SOOOO easy. No challenge in that, hehe. Interestingly, it seems from my research on JTAC directed airstrikes in the current Afgan war that the USAF doesn't use SADL technology all that much at present. There is still not complete uniformity in digital up linking equipped aircraft among coalition forces, and the SADL protocol used in the A-10C is one among many. Coordinating the different digital comm protocols among USAF, Naval and Marine, along with NATO aircraft is an ongoing problem. If the SADL protocol is ultimately selected for universal digital comm format, the A-10C is already ahead of a lot of it's peers.

[wess24m]

instead of all that I just put in the cords (if they don't send you a datalink) and if it's 300-500 miles away i just change the 37t to a 38t, or vice-versa. you have a 1 in 2 chance.

[Arkle]

YES!!!!

 

I don't know about the "bug" part, but it looks like it would be very easy to make a mod that gives UTM zone with JTAC coordinates. Is it actually a useful enough mod?

 

You would receive the Coolest Person Ever Award from the International Association of Very Cool People. In addition to the obvious worldwide exposure this would afford your efforts, you will also receive a coupon for a FREE medium-sized Slurpee at your local participating Seven Eleven store. Seriously though, this would be a very useful mod and make things much more realistic!

Edited December 18, 2011 by Arkle

[Arkle]

instead of all that I just put in the cords (if they don't send you a datalink) and if it's 300-500 miles away i just change the 37t to a 38t, or vice-versa. you have a 1 in 2 chance.

 

LOL. I hate it when someone points out the obvious like this. I felt so damn brilliant up until now with my Rube Goldberg methodology. Thank you though - your method would work much more efficiently.

[ralfidude]

I end up having 50 new waypoints at some point. How do you exactly delete a new waypoint you created?

 

Mind you, i go to the CDU, pres the question mark, rename it, enter the coords, and then hit the knob to mission, thats it.

[rud]

I am curious, when doesn't JTAC send a datalinked target anyways? In some of the campaign missions or single missions are the JTACs set not to or something? I generally play missions I've made myself, and in all the ones I've made with JTAC I always get the target info in my TAD for easy identification and prosecution. I haven't ever entered a target in by coordinates and it makes me feel like I'm missing out on the fun!

[Arkle]

I end up having 50 new waypoints at some point. How do you exactly delete a new waypoint you created?

 

Mind you, i go to the CDU, pres the question mark, rename it, enter the coords, and then hit the knob to mission, thats it.

 

I dunno. I personally use the MISSION rotary select on the CDU to manually input and utilize target-related waypoints/steerpoints like you, then switch back to FLTPLN mode to navigate back home after I blow everything up and the locals on the ground start hurling rocks at me. :pilotfly:

[Arkle]

I am curious, when doesn't JTAC send a datalinked target anyways? In some of the campaign missions or single missions are the JTACs set not to or something? I generally play missions I've made myself, and in all the ones I've made with JTAC I always get the target info in my TAD for easy identification and prosecution. I haven't ever entered a target in by coordinates and it makes me feel like I'm missing out on the fun!

 

Aha, good question! The answer lies in taking away the JTAC's 'EPLRS' (his satcom transceiver thingy) in the advanced waypoint actions menu with the mission planner. If he has no EPLRS he can neither transmit his location or the location of the target to your onboard TADS display. Thus, you are left with manually inputting the target coordinates yourself.

 

It's a fun alternative to using the SADL network and EPLRS, albeit more labor intensive. SADL digital uplinking is definitely the wave of the future in modern warfare, but it isn't widely used in current USAF air to ground operations at present due to lack of commonality in digital networking protocols among both USA and NATO forces aircraft. The higher-ups are currently trying to iron out the details to settle on a common digital format among all forces.

 

With the DCS A-10 sim, however, SADL uplinking is still a necessity in certain circumstances due to the sim JTAC's current limited ability in relaying high resolution MGRS target coordinates through the Nine Line brief. I think at present he relays a 100 meter x 100 meter grid coordinate. If you are armed with JDAMs and use his low resolution MGRS numbers, you will not be very precise hitting a target like a house or tank, etc. You might bag a bridge or factory though. ;) In this instance, the JTAC's relaying more precise targeting information via EPLRS and SADL is a have-to-have, at least with weapons like JDAMS.

 

Of course you can always use the low res JTAC MGRS coordinates to slew the TGP on the target and afterwards get a precise target SPI via TMS UP LONG command, but this requires the pilot's eyes on target before weapons release. What if there are clouds obscuring the target and the JTAC dude has no EPLR capabilty? This is where JDAMS shine, they are drop and forget, all weather capable precision munitions, but you need precise targeting coordinates. Again, SADL and EPLRS render the point moot, but you know it's more fun to monkey the targeting info manually into the CDU sometimes. :)

[ralfidude]

There should be more missions where the Jtac lazes something for you to find with the search finder option on the TGP... so much win!