Fighter Training - kill indicator?

[Supersheep]

I've been watching this video a few times and I wonder how the defensive aircraft/pilot receivs the information that he just would have been hit. They drop a flare to indicate this (I think), but how is it triggered?

 

Some thoughts:

-Data link from the training missile and receiver on the planes

-AWACS control

-Radio command and manual flare release

-???

 

If 1), does that work with guns as well?

 

 

 

Thanks!

Super-

[Jona33]

Most fighters on training will have a blackbox type system that looks a bit like an AIM-9. It can compute missiles, gun rounds and show if you have a kill. I'm not sure if the defending aircraft recieves a kill from the box or if the attacker just calls it over the radio since they will be played back in debriefing there is no point lying.

[Eddie]

They don't transfer info from aircraft to aircraft in flight, other than by voice comms.

 

When carrying out A/A training flights, there are set rules in place to establish what does and does not count as a "kill". While ACMI is very useful, it's more of an after the event debrief tool from the pilot's point of view, and it the way it displays info is very similar to TacView (in fact TacView actually has more information in some respects). During larger training flights ground based exercise controllers watching the live ACMI & Radar feeds have the ability to "kill" any exercise participants, that is how most "BVR" kills take place, the controllers will see/hear that an aircraft has "fired" an AMRAAM (for example) and decide (based on the attacker and defenders positions and actions) if it is a valid shot or not. If it's valid they will "kill" the defender, if not they won't.

 

During debrief the pilots will look through the ACMI recordings and HUD tapes and review any "shots" they are not sure about to see if they were indeed valid, and also see what happened to learn from it. There is always an element of human judgement, so sometimes when someone is "killed" it may have been the case in a real engagement that they would have not been hit, or vice-versa.

 

There is also an element of professionalism from the pilots needed, in that they freely admit when they believe they would have been defeated. After all, it's by being "killed" in training that they learn how to survive in actual combat.

[GGTharos]

To summarize what Eddie is saying, the attacking pilot will call something like:

 

"Kill F-15 right descending turn" - if the pilot is fibbing, they'll find out later ...

[aaron886]

...ground based exercise controllers watching the live ACMI & Radar feeds have the ability to "kill" any exercise participants, that is how most "BVR" kills take place, the controllers will see/hear that an aircraft has "fired" an AMRAAM (for example) and decide (based on the attacker and defenders positions and actions) if it is a valid shot or not.

 

Typically handled by Charlie. She has a PhD in astrophysics, and she's also a civilian contractor so you do not salute her.

 

Besides, you don't have time to think up there. If you think, you're dead.

 

[JaNk0]

LMAO :D

[Baron]

To summarize what Eddie is saying, the attacking pilot will call something like:

 

"Kill F-15 right descending turn" - if the pilot is fibbing, they'll find out later ...

 

Good manners in that kind of situation (mistakingly calling a kill airborne that in hindsight was invalid) is to compensate the wronged $5 in the debrief.

[GGTharos]

There are no good manners if that happens. From what I heard, anyway.

[Supersheep]

Thanks for the insight!

 

 

Super-