How the heck do you do this (Corkscrew Roll)???

[PeterP]

Please put "VFAT" in your youtube search.;)

Edited May 24, 2012 by PeterP

[SimFreak]

It is a part of it.. try to do it in BF3's jet airplane that just go up and down with no wind resistance and can't be stalled, no true gravity or simulation of aerodynamics around the wing. Even better, try it in a game like HAWX 2.

 

Are any of those titles - a flight simulator?

[Shaderhacker]

Please put "VFAT" in your youtube search.;)

 

That's Lock On though. Doesn't count since it's ED. :thumbup:

[Shaderhacker]

Are any of those titles - a flight simulator?

 

I said a flight "game". I know the simulators are more accurate hence my comment that flight model matters - and when I say flight model, I don't mean just the avionics but also the aerodynamics around how the plane flies.

[Blaze]

Good description by Lawndart years back on the techniques required in each position for a roll, "Rolling Left and Rolling". For a prop aircraft just add in that you have to also counter torque-effects.

 

I figured I'd put together a little synopsis of the control inputs and technique used by the wingmen throughout a rolling maneuver. This maneuver makes use of every control surface and power available to each pilot and requires the most coordination out of any type of maneuver, more for some pilots than others. Lead's job is to hit the parameters exactly and make very precise and constant rolls time after time. There is nothing easy about that contrary to what it may sound like, however, I will leave that for a separate discussion since I'd like to touch on the technique and corrections used by the wingmen here.

 

#2 Left Wing

One of the hardest things about this position is being rolled into all the time. Since all rolling maneuvers are done to the left in formation, this means that #2 is always rolled into by Boss. When Boss starts up, you can't be behind the pull at all. If you are, then you'll be pulling a little harder to compensate, and as the Boss rolls into you, you'll be slightly high. You really don't want to be high when the formation is rolling into you. As soon as the left roll begins, start pushing on the stick while bleeding in a little right rudder (towards the formation). As we're rolling left, the right rudder input keeps the jet from looking wide in the formation. This cross controlling of left forward stick and right rudder may seem uncomfortable, especially in rapid rolls. As the formation goes inverted, take out a tiny bit of rudder and then, as we complete the roll, coordinate the movement of the stick back to normal with the ever so gently release of the rudder. This has to be done at a rate that doesn't make the aircraft appear misaligned.

 

Outer Left Wing (Delta)

The hardest thing about this position is that there's nothing easy about it. Take #2's inputs and amplify them times three. Since Boss is rolling about his longitudinal axis everyone on his wing him has to arc their way around Boss, and being on the outer wing creates the greatest distance traveled for any pilot. The Delta roll rate is slower and flown at a higher altitude due to this fact. While Boss needs to be very consistent in using a set roll rate, any little roll increase or decrease will be felt on the outer wing in huge amounts. Essentially what outer left does is fly graceful, yet aggressive using the same inputs as #2 would use, but times three. The power back, the rudder and forward push are all greatly amplified and requires a great deal of coordination to neutralize back to normal as the formation is pulling evenly out of the roll.

 

#3 Right Wing

As #3 on the right wing, you're always being rolled away from. Throughout the dynamics of a diamond roll, you'll need to continuously make corrections to maintain that normal position making sure it looks correct from the crowd. As the formation rolls away from you, you'll need to be making a slightly larger arc through the sky than the other jets and compensate for this with rudder into the formation (left rudder). Using aileron for these corrections would create too much movement and destroy some of the solid look to the formation. It would also be a bad technique to use when the solos join up, because they would have a more difficult time maintaining good position off the wing of #2 and #3 if the wings were continuously rocking. Once the roll begins, try to match the aileron inputs of Boss and the faster he rolls the more back pressure comes in (not aileron). As this back pressure increases so does the power to maintain fore/aft as well as bleeding left rudder into Boss to maintain spacing. Once past the 90 degree point in the roll, use more rudder as necessary and as you approach the 270 degree point , the jets are planform to the crowd, it's important to have the nose aligned with Lead, so then ease out some of that rudder. As you coordinate the bleed out of left rudder you'll also have to compensate for Boss's slowing of the roll (less control inputs by Lead and less drag) by powering up a little as you smoothly take out the remaining rudder and slowly move the stick over back to the right with your ailerons, all while easing off pull and then reapplying back pressure for the steady pull out at the bottom of the roll. Sounds easy right?!

 

Outer Right Wing (Delta)

Once again, there's nothing easy about this position and while not as precise as #3, you're only as good as the inner wingman. Essentially you're using the same inputs in outer right as number #3 is doing throughout the roll, however since you are doing the biggest arc out of everyone in the formation, it requires much more power and more rudder than any other position in the roll. As previously mentioned, Lead rolls slower for a reason in the Delta and any stair step in roll rate is felt in great magnitude on the outer wing. As the formation starts to roll, trying to match aileron input with Boss is key, since then you can focus entirely on using pull to stay on wing and bleeding in a healthy amount of rudder into the formation, both naturally and also along with increased pull. All these control inputs require quite a power up and anticipating near full MIL application in power with the initiation of rudder and pull is essential. Once rolling steady, the hardest thing becomes slowing down the rate and coordinating the release of rudder, pull and power as Boss slows the roll rate down before the steady pull out of the roll. There is nothing ease about that part of this maneuver and requires total concentration and a rock solid #3 to fly off of. A common mistake would be forgetting to take out that rudder, since you've held quite a bit into the formation and it's subsequently fairly easy to end up being cocked in the backside pull.

 

#4 Slot

In the #4 position you're rolling about the same axis as Boss, so it doesn't require hardly any arcing. As the formation begins the roll Boss will tend to slide sideways a little since in the slot position you're flying a deeper position than Boss and this either requires a small delay in roll inputs to maintain your position underneath his jet or a minute application of rudder to keep your nose directly underneath Boss's during the roll. The latter is the better technique since it makes the formation appear in the same planform without the wings cocked. Small rudder applications throughout the roll will keep this alignment fairly easily. The main focus is coordinating power and pull. While the amount of back pressure required is greater than Lead because of a deeper stack in the formation, it's also the easiest to judge, so the main focus becomes power momentum. If the pull is gradual, the power will be as well. As the roll rate picks up, so does the pull and with every increase in pull a power up is required and vice versa. Anticipating and applying these power steps are essential, but since they are so minute an equal movement of power back is usually imminent before to actual momentum takes you forward. Focusing on gradual pulls and feathering the throttle before momentum takes over is key and you really get to "feel" what Boss is doing in this position.

 

[flightace37]

Nice dig for formation roll work, Blaze.

 

With regards to FM and whether or not you can perform a barrel roll in a given game:

 

All you really need is a 3D environment where it is possible to point your nose both above and below the horizon, and you can roll through a full 360 degrees. You don't need gravity, and you don't need atmosphere. Even spacecraft can perform a barrel roll given pitch, roll, and ventral thrusters. (It could be done with a rear-facing thruster instead of ventral, but it would look pretty weird).

 

I've never played Hawx, and probably never will. The couple of times I hopped into a BF3 jet led me to believe that you could perform a barrel roll just fine, given that you can fly a full loop. Completing the roll before you fly off the other side of the map is another matter entirely. :\

[Shaderhacker]

Nice dig for formation roll work, Blaze.

 

With regards to FM and whether or not you can perform a barrel roll in a given game:

 

All you really need is a 3D environment where it is possible to point your nose both above and below the horizon, and you can roll through a full 360 degrees. You don't need gravity, and you don't need atmosphere. Even spacecraft can perform a barrel roll given pitch, roll, and ventral thrusters. (It could be done with a rear-facing thruster instead of ventral, but it would look pretty weird).

 

I've never played Hawx, and probably never will. The couple of times I hopped into a BF3 jet led me to believe that you could perform a barrel roll just fine, given that you can fly a full loop. Completing the roll before you fly off the other side of the map is another matter entirely. :\

 

I disagree that you don't need an atmosphere with wind resistance and gravity. I would urge you to prove it by recording yourself in any of the games I mentioned and posting it on youtube. ;)