LOMAC + SLI, harmony or not?

[Callsign.Vega]

This thread is about discussion of LOMAC:FC and SLI. I will provide some details as to what I have found spending many hours trying to optimize my SLI system for LOMAC. First, I will post my system:

 

FX-55

2GB Ram

Dual 6800 Ultras

Widescreen LCD at native 1920*1200 resolution

Forceware 81.87 beta drivers, coolbits 2.0 and nHancer

 

I started this trek just like most people do, to squeeze out every single ounce of performance from a machine that cost a lot of money. Before I started tweaking, performance on my SLI machine was less then stellar. I started reading all of these LOMAC benchmarks out there and some of them did not jive.

 

Example: http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/video/2005-17gpu/lockon_candy.gif

 

All I care about on this benchmark is the 4x AA, 16x AF 1600x1200 comparison (red). If you are running any lower then that with SLI, you are doing something wrong.

 

First thing to note is: a 7800GTX in SLI is actually slower then a single 7800GTX. Also note, a 7800GTX SLI setup is only 10% faster then a 6800 Ultra SLI setup. This would indicate more so then not that LOMAC is CPU limited.

 

Example:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/athlon_64_geforce_7800_gtx_scaling/images/lomac1600.gif

 

Same exact settings as the previous benchmark, yet a totally different outcome. Here, the graphics card is by far the limiting factor. An A64 3000+ having the exact same FPS as a FX-57 using a 6800 GT? An A64 3500+ only .7 FPS off of a FX-57 with a 7800GTX? What is really going on here?

 

Example: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_7800_gtx/images/lomac1600.gif

 

From the firing-squad just like the one above, yet once again total different results. Here now a 6800 Ultra SLI has a 32% speed increase over a single, and a single 7800GTX has a 41% speed increase over a single 6800Ultra on a CPU limited game?

 

Just by judging from those three benchmarks above, if you were trying to either upgrade your’ CPU or graphics card for Lock-On, there is no clear answer.

 

Now playing around with my system with 81.87 beta drivers that does have a Lock-On profile, I found that DISABLING SLI and running one card actually gave a few % points FPS boost. This is running LOMAC at 1920*1200 res with highest quality set under display properties. The thing is, you can load LOMAC with “show gpu load balancing” and the SLI is barely even used. nVidia defaults LOMAC to alternate frame rendering, which did not net me any frame boost.

 

I then tried SLI:8x AA. I then showed about the same FPS as with 4x AA. So finally I received a positive to SLI, you can run twice as much AA without a frame loss.

 

I then tried to manually edit the nvapps.xml file to delete the lock-on profile so I could try split frame rendering. This did not work so good, as the nVidia driver has it locked down somewhere. I found this free program online that allowed my to delete the lock-on profile from the .xml and registry: http://www.nhancer.com/

 

With that, I deleted the lock-on profile, changed the global config settings to split-frame, launched LOMAC and did some testing. I showed a whopping 26% FPS increase across the board. The frame increase was with the same settings: 4x AA, 16x AF and drivers set to max quality. For some unknown reason, nVidia set the default profile for LOMAC to use alternate frame rendering instead of split-frame where there is a clear performance advantage. Using SLI:8x AA is nice but I do not see that big of a difference over 4x to warrant a loss of 26% performance, at least on my machine.

 

Users with SLI, please submit your testing with SLI and see if you found similar results. Go ahead and try split-frame rendering over alternate frame and see if you received as large a performance gain as I have. Feel free to post comments and/or questions.

[Tabasco]

Thanks man, finally somebody has an answer to this apparent lack of support for sli for lockon, I have a vanilla system with 2/6600gt's in it and I have no fear I fubaring the os up with tweaking it beings that it is not my primary system so I' m going to do some experimenting......I kept on reading at the nvidia site that it was supposed to being an easy process of writting your own game profile for use with sli, just like you found out though that isn't the case....I ran into the same problems as you did, it was locked down, couldn't edit anything....I guess they need to either explain better or include this third party app at their site, anyway nice find, I tell you how it goes.

[Tabasco]

I don't know if there is really a difference, I did exactly as you described, but at times it seems like it does use some of the other card and at other time it doesn't use it at all which is really no different then afr, not trying to to diss you or anything but that is what I have noticed so far, I do like the fact that this app will actually let you at least experiment with the driver settings/configurations, still an excellent find.....I 'll mess with it some more when I get some time....ttyl

[Callsign.Vega]

When you have "show gpu load balancing" checked, running lock on did you have the single solid green horizontal line moving up and down the screen balancing the load in split-frame rendering? I have seen it where it does not move, that means SLI is doing nothing.

[Tabasco]

I had vertical in bothe afr/afr2 and horizontal in sfr, is this how the scale differentiates between the two modes? I figure it is, seems like sli is used in different instances when in different modes, especailly when I veiw outside of the cockpit, specifically it works outside of the aircraft a vast majority of the time, but there were some irregular spikes in the cockpit once in a while, this is unusaul, it really makes me wonder what exactly is the encoded logic that determines when and when not sli is to be used, what are the determining factors if any, you know reason and logic seem to go right out the door it would seem, it works whenever for apparently no reason what so ever...fricking puzzling?! Lockon is not the only game that sli acts like this with, that is the main reason I didn't buy a second card for my primary system, why pay another $500 for basically nothing, god, I hope nvidia straightens their crap out soon!

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

SLI does jackshit for lomac, i tested and tested til the cows came home and it still dont do nada.

 

Well i lie, it does make my fps go threw the roof in the main menu screen, 600 - 700fps :D thats it, but with 1 7800 running i get about 450ish, if i remember.

[Tabasco]

Oh well shit, then I have to go out and a buy second card then, I must have higher frame rates in the menu screen....jk

[TucksonSonny]

Oh well shit, then I have to go out and a buy second card then, I must have higher frame rates in the menu screen....jk

 

 

Hi Tabasco,

I am just wondering which multiplier you are using on that FX-57 ?

[Callsign.Vega]

SLI does jackshit for lomac, i tested and tested til the cows came home and it still dont do nada.

 

Well i lie, it does make my fps go threw the roof in the main menu screen, 600 - 700fps :D thats it, but with 1 7800 running i get about 450ish, if i remember.

 

Evil, did you truely try SFR? You HAVE to go through the steps I posted about or it won't work. I kid you not, I did get my claimed performance boost, almost when I gave up hope.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

ya, ive tried multi gpu, single gpu, afr, afr2, split frame and sli AA, and there is no difference between any off them whether it be a single 78 or both, the gpu load usage doesnt move whatsoever, well it does at times but as you say, barely. there maybe is like a 1-3 fps difference between 1 card and both, and I agree that one video card is probably the best for me at this time, but i always run it in sli mode for some reason.

 

but the game runs real smooth for me with any setting, from SLI AA 16x and 16AF, or just normal AA @ 8S and AF @ 16x on any game. so there is no real need for me to go f**k with things to get that extra 1-3fps out of it, i might one day but not atm, as F.E.A.R has taken me over for the last few days :D but it does sound cool, if i can replicate that would be cool ;)

 

I never deleted the lockon profile like you did, i just modded the original profile and tested that way.

[Callsign.Vega]

I also never saw any FPS increase between one 6800 Ultra or two SLI until I used nHancer to delete the lock-on profile. The thing is, with that profile there the driver will override any setting you say to use. There lies the problem, users think changing the settings under the control panel even with coolbits is doing something, but in fact is not. You most likely don't need SLI with a 7800GTX but it would be interesting to see if your Lock-On is totaly CPU capped and it's real easy to test.

 

Up to you of course.. :)

[Tabasco]

Hi Tabasco,

 

I am just wondering which multiplier you are using on that FX-57 ?

Check out my sig I updated it, didn't think anyone would be interested so I left it out, you ever consider squeezing the fx55 of yours? you would be surprised at the difference it would make, not so much with this game in particular, but all around it is like you would have an fx57 at the least, I have an venice amd 3000 clocked at 2610mhz, other then lacking the 1000mhz fsb that thing flys, I fail to understand why anyone would spend $50 more for a 3200 0r the price difference upto a 3800(recently all the prices have dropped on 3800 and below), they all have the same fsb and the only difference is what they are stock clocked at, and the only catch is added cost of a better hsf, aslong as it is kept under 55degrees nothing is happening that would cause any damage to the processor, well good tccd ram wouldn't hurt either, the ocz ee ram I' am running is hand picked and test sorted samsung tccd which is no where near it's max capable setting ....yet, sorry this is a game site, honestly I spend more time on tweaking then I do playing the actual games I build these systems for.

[Tabasco]

ya, ive tried multi gpu, single gpu, afr, afr2, split frame and sli AA, and there is no difference between any off them whether it be a single 78 or both, the gpu load usage doesnt move whatsoever, well it does at times but as you say, barely. there maybe is like a 1-3 fps difference between 1 card and both, and I agree that one video card is probably the best for me at this time, but i always run it in sli mode for some reason.

 

but the game runs real smooth for me with any setting, from SLI AA 16x and 16AF, or just normal AA @ 8S and AF @ 16x on any game. so there is no real need for me to go f**k with things to get that extra 1-3fps out of it, i might one day but not atm, as F.E.A.R has taken me over for the last few days :D but it does sound cool, if i can replicate that would be cool ;)

 

I never deleted the lockon profile like you did, i just modded the original profile and tested that way.

:icon_exclHey scottsman, go ahead and delete the lockon profile, then set it up just like he described under the global profile, and set it to sfr, for some reason it will not run correctly unless you do this, and if your worried about lossing the actual 'lockon profile don't, there is a back made and you can restore it later if you choose to, that's what makes this app so good, no matter how fubarred you might adjust the settings you can always restore the profile to default later......unlike coolbits, with colbits if you take it beyond the limits of your memory to what exactly where the defaults you end up having to reinstall the whole driver to correct any mistake you might of made....it opens up the possibilty of tweaking without the fear having to go through a whole mess of crap.....I gain a small noticeable ammount of performance...probably something along the lines of 20% IN THE COCKPIT, WHERE IT COUNTS... it's still not enough to justify going out to get another card though.

[Callsign.Vega]

20% increase aint bad if you already have the second card. I average about 26% increase on my particular machine, I guess all the money I spend was not a total waste! ;)

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

ok ok, lemme go try this out.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

ok, i installed .net 1.1 and service pack, i then installed nhancer, i deleted old LO sli profile, created new one with exact same settings as i was using before, but with sfr instead of afr, and i can honestly say, that i didnt notice a fps increase or anything :( maybe i havent did it right when making a new profile, but its exactly the same as before ?

 

I did override some settings cuz it wudnt let me pick sfr without overriding. if you want you can pm me with details about how you made your profile, as i just got the program and havent sussed it out yet. so quick instructions on how u made ur lockon profile would be nice. but i think ive did it ok. just that i dont seem to be gettin any boost out of it.

[Callsign.Vega]

Must be done with Lock-On profile deleted and a new one NOT made at all. Then, under global profile select SFR. Only way I got it to work. More specifics in my original post.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

I deleted the lockon profile that comes with vidia drivers, but i made a new one threw nhancer, isnt that the same as makin a new "workin" profile that will use sfr ? but not via nvidia.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

ok, i deleted the lockon profile that comes with nvidia drivers, i deleted it via nhancer, and then i set it to sfr and global driver, so basically there was no lockon profile for the drivers to pick up. so everything was set for sfr, and when tested, still exactly the same happened, the gpu load balancing program was running but still did not move and fps was same ?

[Callsign.Vega]

Which driver version are you running? Did you by chance test SLI AA and see if that worked?

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

81.87 . i have tried sli aa, but i didnt try it last night, and it did exactly the same as the rest of the rendering options, exact same fps, which it shudnt cuz normally sli aa = less than half the fps as normal rendering. i will try messin around with it a litle more today at some point.

[Callsign.Vega]

Interesting. I know of a user on another forum that tried my method and recieved almost 30% increase in FPS. I wonder why it is not working for everyone. He also has dual 7800GTX's.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

check this out, i went into the nvidia control panel, i set it on the lockon profile, then i started nhancer and deleted the lockon profile, i then tried to go back into nvidia control panel, but as it was already set for lockon sli profile, it kept giving me a BEEP then an error, obviously that it was trying to use a profile that wasnt there.

 

but i can say that, i reset everything back to defaults, went into nhancer, and deleted the profile just like u said, and then went into nvidia control panle and then set it to sfr, and i did not see any difference, there maybe was, but sli still continues to not move when gpu load program is running. if there was an increase it was negligible and i never noticed, but i had vsync on and capped at 75, so maybe i need to take vsync off and test again. but as i say, i never tested sli aa, but when testing weeks ago, every setting was the same, due to the fact that nvidia overrides any user input for that sli profile.

 

i will do some more testing later on today, but atm i running memtest on that rig so i gotta wait.

[Callsign.Vega]

Never run vsync, the only reason it is there is if you have tearing. It can actually lower your FPS.

[Guest EVIL-SCOTSMAN]

ya, without the new drivers that gave vsync to sli, lockon was tearing big time, whenever i turned my head, the screen would split, and i hated it. I am really happy that the release 80 drivers brought in vsync for sli. Every game would bug me with out vsync being turned on, i would rather have a stable non tearing game, than seeing tearing every 5 seconds. i think vsync is magic. only time i have it turned off is when i run benchies.

 

Every single game of mine was affected by tearing when running in sli mode, even at insane game settings aa/af and resolution it would still tear as the fps were always going above 75hz/fps with any game. at times i would actually turn sli off and just use one card for a game, cuz it bugged me soooooooooooooooo much, especially as i didnt know until after i got my cards, that vsync wasnt available at that time for sli. but it is now, so i am glad.