Ракеты в DCS

[Chizh]

7 minutes ago, BlackPixxel said:

It is from this Eagle Dynamics PDF:

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/upload/medialibrary/bda/xnncgbqcdftgat1awbmcegln17yf2c8m/R-27_Missile_Family.pdf

OK
There is explanation:
"...R-77 has a worst ballistic coefficient due to lattice fins with relatively high drag and almost the same burnout mass as the AIM-120C."

[BlackPixxel]

But should the drag penalty of grid fins be not around the transsonic region? Here the missile has a hefty penalty over the whole Mach range.

On R-77-1 extra effort was spent on optimizing the shape of the missile for drag reduction, yet the grid fins remained. If they were as bad as in DCS they would be the first thing to go (or not be implemented at all in the first place).

I think that the current drag is simply a relict from the older days of DCS / Flaming Cliffs, where AIM-120 also had more drag. We have two aircraft in DCS that use this missile, so it deserves some love and attention as well!

Edited May 20, 2024 by BlackPixxel

[Chizh]

12 minutes ago, BlackPixxel said:

But should the drag penalty of grid fins be not around the transsonic region? Here the missile has a hefty penalty over the whole Mach range.

On R-77-1 extra effort was spent on optimizing the shape of the missile for drag reduction, yet the grid fins remained. If they were as bad as in DCS they would be the first thing to go (or not be implemented at all in the first place).

The presence of lattice fins on the R-77-1 suggests that the developers did not radically change the aerodynamic configuration, since this requires a lot of effort, time and money.
Lattice fins for AA missiles are not used anywhere in the world, due to the fact that they transonics issues and give a huge RCS.

 

Quote

Current research at the United State Air Force’s Aeroballistic Research Facility (ARF) at Eglin Air Force Base in Florida has indicated there is a critical transonic Mach number where normal shock waves are believed to be present within some of the grid cells. At this particular Mach number, there is a dynamic instability with severe variations of the pitch moment coefficient.

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/ADA426637.pdf

[okopanja]

58 minutes ago, Chizh said:

The presence of lattice fins on the R-77-1 suggests that the developers did not radically change the aerodynamic configuration, since this requires a lot of effort, time and money.
Lattice fins for AA missiles are not used anywhere in the world, due to the fact that they transonics issues and give a huge RCS.

I would say what matters is intended application, we are not talking here about bombs and ballistic missiles.

Common sense: DCS AA missiles are killing mostly in well above trans-sonic. By following this line of thought the are 2 moments where the trans-sonic range penalty matters:

- acceleration, during which engine still burns, (can be remedied by passing trans-sonic range with the launch platform first). Not sure if this is modeled in DCS.

- de-acceleration when it again re-enters trans-sonic range. However, in DCS this area means a rather low probability of kill even with the AMRAAM.

So the question is how does lattice design performs compared to more conventional in super-sonic range. (will do some reading on the quoted paper later).

 

 

 

[F-2]

https://defence-blog.com/russian-fighter-fired-and-lost-a-secret-missile-in-ukraine/?amp
 

recovered R-77-1

[BlackPixxel]

What I find interresting is how the stated max range goes up from 80 to 110 km for R-77-1, but R-77-1 adds stronger motor, better aerodynamics and supposedly the loft. But if the loft was only introduced with the R-77-1, then I would expect to see a much bigger increase in stated max range. If R-77 on the other hand already has loft, then the range increase being from stronger motor and aero alone seems more reasonable.

Edited May 20, 2024 by BlackPixxel

[Chizh]

9 minutes ago, BlackPixxel said:

What I find interresting is how the stated max range goes up from 80 to 110 km for R-77-1, but R-77-1 adds stronger motor, better aerodynamics and supposedly the loft. But if the loft was only introduced with the R-77-1, then I would expect to see a much bigger increase in stated max range. If R-77 on the other hand already has loft, then the range increase being from stronger motor and aero alone seems more reasonable.

 

The R-77 missile range was limited not by energy, but by guidance accuracy.

[okopanja]

52 minutes ago, BlackPixxel said:

What I find interresting is how the stated max range goes up from 80 to 110 km for R-77-1, but R-77-1 adds stronger motor, better aerodynamics and supposedly the loft. But if the loft was only introduced with the R-77-1, then I would expect to see a much bigger increase in stated max range. If R-77 on the other hand already has loft, then the range increase being from stronger motor and aero alone seems more reasonable.

 

If additional mass did not go into engine it could go other places:

- seaker/battery

- guidance

- warhead

[Wyvern]

1 hour ago, Chizh said:

The R-77 missile range was limited not by energy, but by guidance accuracy.

What?
 Do you have a source for that? I'd love to see how that is true.

Edited May 20, 2024 by Wyvern

[Irisz]

Help for the operation of the RVV-AE missile! These are not secret documents, anyone can get them if they know!

https://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/k-r/1993/8-avia-rak.html

Наведение ракеты комбинированное: командно-инерциальное на начальном и активное радиолокационное самонаведе ние на конечном участке траектории. Переход на второе осуществляется по сигналу бортовой вычислительной маши ны, которая определяет дистанцию захва та цели головкой. После перехода на самонаведение линия коррекции полет ных данных ракеты с самолета-носителя продолжает формировать математичес кую модель цели. В случае ее потери на траектории организуется повторный по- иск с использованием этой модели.
Схема атаки выглядит так. Самолет носитель производит поиск, захват и со- провождение целей своей бортовой ра диолокационной станцией. (Число итаку емых целей является характеристикой самолетной станции, а ракета сконструи рована таким образом, что любая из под вешенных под носителем может быть пущена по своей цели). Примерно за 10 секунд до входа в зону разрешенного пуска или по команде «Пуск» ракета на чинает работу в предпусковом режиме и получает от носителя информацию о цели, По команде «Пуск» включается автоном- ное питание, запоминается информация о параметрах носителя и цели, разаррети руклся рули. ли. Им дается предварительное стклонение для безопасного отделения ракеты от носителя. Если она располага ется на рельсовой пусковой установке, то сразу после этого происходит поджиг двигателя, а если на катапультной, то сначала срабатывают толкатели, отделязо- щие ракету от самолета, а затем с некото рой, зависящей от тактической ситуации,
задержкой включается двигатель.
После удаления ракеты от самолета на безопасное для него расстояние (150 300 м), изводится механизм взрывателя. При этом, в случае стрельбы на минимальной дальности, командно- - инерциальное наведение не использует ся, а сразу по сходу включается активная головка.
Во всех режимах применения исполь зуется метод модифицированного про порционального наведения. А в условиях организованных помех, при которых бор- товая радиолокационная станция носите ля не может обеспечивать ракету сведения о дальности и скорости сближения с целью, наведение происходит по специальным траекториям. (В головке самонаведения ракеты реализована также возможность пассивного наведения на источник по
мех, совмещенный с целью). По сравнению с ракетой AMRAAM РВВ-АЕ имеет более высококачествен ную диаграмму направленности антенны головки самонаведения и за счет этого она обладает более высокой эффектив ностью пораження малоразмерных ни зколетающих целей на догонных курсах.

The missile guidance is combined: command-inertial at the initial stage and active radar homing at the final part of the trajectory. The transition to the second is carried out by a signal from the onboard computer, which determines the target acquisition distance by the head. After switching to homing, the missile flight data correction line from the carrier aircraft continues to form a mathematical model of the target. If it is lost along the trajectory, a repeated search is organized using this model.
The attack pattern looks like this. The carrier aircraft searches, captures and tracks targets with its onboard radar station. (The number of targets to be attacked is a characteristic of the aircraft station, and the missile is designed in such a way that any of those suspended under the carrier can be launched at its target). Approximately 10 seconds before entering the authorized launch zone or upon the “Start” command, the missile begins operation in pre-launch mode and receives information about the target from the carrier. At the “Start” command, the autonomous power is turned on, information about the parameters of the carrier and the target is stored, Rasarreti took the helm. whether. They are given a preliminary declination to safely separate the rocket from the carrier. If it is located on a rail launcher, then immediately after this the engine is ignited, and if on a catapult launcher, then the pushers are first activated, separating the missile from the aircraft, and then with some degree, depending on the tactical situation,
The engine is switched on with a delay.
After the missile is removed from the aircraft to a safe distance for it (150-300 m), the fuse mechanism is fired. At the same time, in the case of firing at a minimum range, command-inertial guidance is not used, and the active head is immediately turned on.
All application modes use a modified proportional guidance method. And in conditions of organized interference, in which the carrier’s onboard radar station cannot provide the missile with information about the range and speed of approach to the target, guidance occurs along special trajectories. (The missile homing head also includes the ability to passively target a source using
fur combined with the target). Compared to the AMRAAM missile, the RVV-AE has a higher-quality radiation pattern of the homing head antenna and, due to this, it has a higher efficiency in hitting small-sized low-flying targets on catch-up courses.

5. Datalink operation range (with the MiG-29 fire control system), km up to 50

I am convinced that this datalink channel with a range of 50 km does not exist in DCS World, which is on the MiG-29S to control the RVV-AE! So it is completely unnecessary to talk about the silent start, which is not detected by the opponent's RWR! The Flaming Cliffs product is too arcadey to use RVV-AE!

I think many of us are fans of Flanker and Fulcrum and we would be happy if the development of DCS World was not one way and if the developers paid more attention to the Flaming Cliffs product, because the game is broken at some points and with these planes it is frustrating to wait years for something to happen!

[Chizh]

1 hour ago, Irisz said:

Help for the operation of the RVV-AE missile! These are not secret documents, anyone can get them if they know!

https://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/k-r/1993/8-avia-rak.html

Наведение ракеты комбинированное: командно-инерциальное на начальном и активное радиолокационное самонаведе ние на конечном участке траектории. Переход на второе осуществляется по сигналу бортовой вычислительной маши ны, которая определяет дистанцию захва та цели головкой. После перехода на самонаведение линия коррекции полет ных данных ракеты с самолета-носителя продолжает формировать математичес кую модель цели. В случае ее потери на траектории организуется повторный по- иск с использованием этой модели.
Схема атаки выглядит так. Самолет носитель производит поиск, захват и со- провождение целей своей бортовой ра диолокационной станцией. (Число итаку емых целей является характеристикой самолетной станции, а ракета сконструи рована таким образом, что любая из под вешенных под носителем может быть пущена по своей цели). Примерно за 10 секунд до входа в зону разрешенного пуска или по команде «Пуск» ракета на чинает работу в предпусковом режиме и получает от носителя информацию о цели, По команде «Пуск» включается автоном- ное питание, запоминается информация о параметрах носителя и цели, разаррети руклся рули. ли. Им дается предварительное стклонение для безопасного отделения ракеты от носителя. Если она располага ется на рельсовой пусковой установке, то сразу после этого происходит поджиг двигателя, а если на катапультной, то сначала срабатывают толкатели, отделязо- щие ракету от самолета, а затем с некото рой, зависящей от тактической ситуации,
задержкой включается двигатель.
После удаления ракеты от самолета на безопасное для него расстояние (150 300 м), изводится механизм взрывателя. При этом, в случае стрельбы на минимальной дальности, командно- - инерциальное наведение не использует ся, а сразу по сходу включается активная головка.
Во всех режимах применения исполь зуется метод модифицированного про порционального наведения. А в условиях организованных помех, при которых бор- товая радиолокационная станция носите ля не может обеспечивать ракету сведения о дальности и скорости сближения с целью, наведение происходит по специальным траекториям. (В головке самонаведения ракеты реализована также возможность пассивного наведения на источник по
мех, совмещенный с целью). По сравнению с ракетой AMRAAM РВВ-АЕ имеет более высококачествен ную диаграмму направленности антенны головки самонаведения и за счет этого она обладает более высокой эффектив ностью пораження малоразмерных ни зколетающих целей на догонных курсах.

The missile guidance is combined: command-inertial at the initial stage and active radar homing at the final part of the trajectory. The transition to the second is carried out by a signal from the onboard computer, which determines the target acquisition distance by the head. After switching to homing, the missile flight data correction line from the carrier aircraft continues to form a mathematical model of the target. If it is lost along the trajectory, a repeated search is organized using this model.
The attack pattern looks like this. The carrier aircraft searches, captures and tracks targets with its onboard radar station. (The number of targets to be attacked is a characteristic of the aircraft station, and the missile is designed in such a way that any of those suspended under the carrier can be launched at its target). Approximately 10 seconds before entering the authorized launch zone or upon the “Start” command, the missile begins operation in pre-launch mode and receives information about the target from the carrier. At the “Start” command, the autonomous power is turned on, information about the parameters of the carrier and the target is stored, Rasarreti took the helm. whether. They are given a preliminary declination to safely separate the rocket from the carrier. If it is located on a rail launcher, then immediately after this the engine is ignited, and if on a catapult launcher, then the pushers are first activated, separating the missile from the aircraft, and then with some degree, depending on the tactical situation,
The engine is switched on with a delay.
After the missile is removed from the aircraft to a safe distance for it (150-300 m), the fuse mechanism is fired. At the same time, in the case of firing at a minimum range, command-inertial guidance is not used, and the active head is immediately turned on.
All application modes use a modified proportional guidance method. And in conditions of organized interference, in which the carrier’s onboard radar station cannot provide the missile with information about the range and speed of approach to the target, guidance occurs along special trajectories. (The missile homing head also includes the ability to passively target a source using
fur combined with the target). Compared to the AMRAAM missile, the RVV-AE has a higher-quality radiation pattern of the homing head antenna and, due to this, it has a higher efficiency in hitting small-sized low-flying targets on catch-up courses.

5. Datalink operation range (with the MiG-29 fire control system), km up to 50

I am convinced that this datalink channel with a range of 50 km does not exist in DCS World, which is on the MiG-29S to control the RVV-AE! So it is completely unnecessary to talk about the silent start, which is not detected by the opponent's RWR! The Flaming Cliffs product is too arcadey to use RVV-AE!

I think many of us are fans of Flanker and Fulcrum and we would be happy if the development of DCS World was not one way and if the developers paid more attention to the Flaming Cliffs product, because the game is broken at some points and with these planes it is frustrating to wait years for something to happen!

If you have specific complaints, let me listen to you.

[Кош]

На данный момент есть какая-то разница между коническим сканированием, моноимпульсом и инверс-моноимпульсом у ПАРГСН в DCS?

[Chizh]

On 5/23/2024 at 12:01 PM, Кош said:

На данный момент есть какая-то разница между коническим сканированием, моноимпульсом и инверс-моноимпульсом у ПАРГСН в DCS?

Пока нет. В планах.

[Irisz]

To the topic R-77-1!

    The designer of PL12/SD10, Liang Xiaogeng, mentioned in an interview that the maximum shoot range of SD10 and AIM120 are measured at 10km altitude and 1.2 Mach speed for both carrier and target while the claimed 100km range for R77 is measured at 20km altitude and 1.5Mach. If using the same test standard, the range of R77 would be =<70km, on par with or even worse than SD10/PL12.

    In this regard, even the claimed 110km range of R77-1 is probably exaggerated as well.

    And also note that even the export version of PL15, namely PL15E, is labled with a max. range of 145km by AVIC.

    So yeah if someone still insists on this two having similar performance … Well, good luck.

The developer of the PL-12 allegedly said this, but it is not true. We can prove the AIM-120 does 74km from subsonic launch (0.9 mach) at a 0.9 mach target from 10km.
Likewise, the same situation for the R-77 yields closer to 80-100km.

The R-77-1 is a longer missile, more aerodynamic with more motor in it. At the test conditions that the R-77 receives 80km range the R-77-1 has 110km range.

The PL-15E is an export version of the PL-15 with less range, 145km is expected. The PL-15 is rumored to be a dual pulse motor (boost-boost, or boost-sustain-boost). Other missiles that were modified to dual pulse doubled their range (Such as MICA-NG).

So it is expected they might fit a normal single pulse boost-sustain type motor in the PL-15E and leave the dual pulse for the domestic model and the range figures match.

    PLAAF noted in this lecture that the maximum shoot range of AIM120C on JAS39 is 80km while for R77 on J11A it is only 50km.

Discussing more so the ranges that they were detecting each other. The Su-27 is a huge aircraft with 15m2+ radar cross section versus the Gripen with less than 3m2, the Su-27 also has the worse radar for these types of conditions.

 

Russians measure range differently than others, hence many misunderstandings!

[Irisz]

For the highest simulation, information about the R-27 ALAMO missile!

[tripod3]

Вспоминается "вар тандер форум инцидент"

[tavarish palkovnik]

I’m looking for pressure-time diagram of Mk36 Mod.5 motor (Sidewinder 1C AIM-9D) or Mk50 Mod.0 (Chaparral).

Or of any other Mk36 in 6-points star configuration, preferably with composite propellant. 
So if someone has it, it would be appreciated.

There are few of such kind on dtic.mil when motor pulsing were performed in past, seams like similar but always something missing or simply is not what real Sidewinder motor should looks like

[BlackPixxel]

Bug with R-77:

when STT lock is lost and the missile is not active yet, it will turn extremely hard upwards and climb into space.

What is expected: The missile should continue tracking the mathematical target (extrapolating last known target vector).

R-77-bug.trk

Update: it also affects R-27R/ER

R-27R-bug.trk

Edited May 29, 2024 by BlackPixxel

[Chizh]

27 minutes ago, BlackPixxel said:

Bug with R-77:

when STT lock is lost and the missile is not active yet, it will turn extremely hard upwards and climb into space.

What is expected: The missile should continue tracking the mathematical target (extrapolating last known target vector).

R-77-bug.trk 90.89 kB · 0 downloads

Update: it also affects R-27R/ER

R-27R-bug.trk 66.77 kB · 0 downloads

 

Bug with climbing to vertical after lose lock affects to all missiles. Already fixed into internal build. Waiting for updates.

[H7142]

On 5/20/2024 at 7:29 AM, BlackPixxel said:

But should the drag penalty of grid fins be not around the transsonic region? Here the missile has a hefty penalty over the whole Mach range.

On R-77-1 extra effort was spent on optimizing the shape of the missile for drag reduction, yet the grid fins remained. If they were as bad as in DCS they would be the first thing to go (or not be implemented at all in the first place).

I think that the current drag is simply a relict from the older days of DCS / Flaming Cliffs, where AIM-120 also had more drag. We have two aircraft in DCS that use this missile, so it deserves some love and attention as well!

 

The drag penalty of the gridfins is across all regimens relevant to a/a missiles.  They do start to come into their own above M4'ish but no a/a missile stays in this regime for long.  Gridfins in general have to be built to an effective mach range outside of which they have serious drag penalties.  Even in that regieme you have more drag in part due to higher area then a monoplane design.  They have their advantages but drag is NOT one of them.  There is a reason why only two a/a missiles use them and why the R37 and R77M abandoned them. 

link to analysis doc from which above are taken:

https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA509444

Edited May 29, 2024 by H7142

[H7142]

On 5/21/2024 at 12:54 AM, Irisz said:

Help for the operation of the RVV-AE missile! These are not secret documents, anyone can get them if they know!

https://epizodsspace.airbase.ru/bibl/k-r/1993/8-avia-rak.html

Наведение ракеты комбинированное: командно-инерциальное на начальном и активное радиолокационное самонаведе ние на конечном участке траектории. Переход на второе осуществляется по сигналу бортовой вычислительной маши ны, которая определяет дистанцию захва та цели головкой. После перехода на самонаведение линия коррекции полет ных данных ракеты с самолета-носителя продолжает формировать математичес кую модель цели. В случае ее потери на траектории организуется повторный по- иск с использованием этой модели.
Схема атаки выглядит так. Самолет носитель производит поиск, захват и со- провождение целей своей бортовой ра диолокационной станцией. (Число итаку емых целей является характеристикой самолетной станции, а ракета сконструи рована таким образом, что любая из под вешенных под носителем может быть пущена по своей цели). Примерно за 10 секунд до входа в зону разрешенного пуска или по команде «Пуск» ракета на чинает работу в предпусковом режиме и получает от носителя информацию о цели, По команде «Пуск» включается автоном- ное питание, запоминается информация о параметрах носителя и цели, разаррети руклся рули. ли. Им дается предварительное стклонение для безопасного отделения ракеты от носителя. Если она располага ется на рельсовой пусковой установке, то сразу после этого происходит поджиг двигателя, а если на катапультной, то сначала срабатывают толкатели, отделязо- щие ракету от самолета, а затем с некото рой, зависящей от тактической ситуации,
задержкой включается двигатель.
После удаления ракеты от самолета на безопасное для него расстояние (150 300 м), изводится механизм взрывателя. При этом, в случае стрельбы на минимальной дальности, командно- - инерциальное наведение не использует ся, а сразу по сходу включается активная головка.
Во всех режимах применения исполь зуется метод модифицированного про порционального наведения. А в условиях организованных помех, при которых бор- товая радиолокационная станция носите ля не может обеспечивать ракету сведения о дальности и скорости сближения с целью, наведение происходит по специальным траекториям. (В головке самонаведения ракеты реализована также возможность пассивного наведения на источник по
мех, совмещенный с целью). По сравнению с ракетой AMRAAM РВВ-АЕ имеет более высококачествен ную диаграмму направленности антенны головки самонаведения и за счет этого она обладает более высокой эффектив ностью пораження малоразмерных ни зколетающих целей на догонных курсах.

The missile guidance is combined: command-inertial at the initial stage and active radar homing at the final part of the trajectory. The transition to the second is carried out by a signal from the onboard computer, which determines the target acquisition distance by the head. After switching to homing, the missile flight data correction line from the carrier aircraft continues to form a mathematical model of the target. If it is lost along the trajectory, a repeated search is organized using this model.
The attack pattern looks like this. The carrier aircraft searches, captures and tracks targets with its onboard radar station. (The number of targets to be attacked is a characteristic of the aircraft station, and the missile is designed in such a way that any of those suspended under the carrier can be launched at its target). Approximately 10 seconds before entering the authorized launch zone or upon the “Start” command, the missile begins operation in pre-launch mode and receives information about the target from the carrier. At the “Start” command, the autonomous power is turned on, information about the parameters of the carrier and the target is stored, Rasarreti took the helm. whether. They are given a preliminary declination to safely separate the rocket from the carrier. If it is located on a rail launcher, then immediately after this the engine is ignited, and if on a catapult launcher, then the pushers are first activated, separating the missile from the aircraft, and then with some degree, depending on the tactical situation,
The engine is switched on with a delay.
After the missile is removed from the aircraft to a safe distance for it (150-300 m), the fuse mechanism is fired. At the same time, in the case of firing at a minimum range, command-inertial guidance is not used, and the active head is immediately turned on.
All application modes use a modified proportional guidance method. And in conditions of organized interference, in which the carrier’s onboard radar station cannot provide the missile with information about the range and speed of approach to the target, guidance occurs along special trajectories. (The missile homing head also includes the ability to passively target a source using
fur combined with the target). Compared to the AMRAAM missile, the RVV-AE has a higher-quality radiation pattern of the homing head antenna and, due to this, it has a higher efficiency in hitting small-sized low-flying targets on catch-up courses.

5. Datalink operation range (with the MiG-29 fire control system), km up to 50

I am convinced that this datalink channel with a range of 50 km does not exist in DCS World, which is on the MiG-29S to control the RVV-AE! So it is completely unnecessary to talk about the silent start, which is not detected by the opponent's RWR! The Flaming Cliffs product is too arcadey to use RVV-AE!

I think many of us are fans of Flanker and Fulcrum and we would be happy if the development of DCS World was not one way and if the developers paid more attention to the Flaming Cliffs product, because the game is broken at some points and with these planes it is frustrating to wait years for something to happen!

How much is known of the seeker?  For example average power, HPRF/MPRF, beamwidth?

[Irisz]

On 5/29/2024 at 6:27 PM, H7142 said:

How much is known of the seeker?  For example average power, HPRF/MPRF, beamwidth?

I don't know more about this rocket, I will do my best to provide more information to the developers. It is up to them how attractive they make the FC3 product, if they are not interested then their product will not be attractive!

[F-2]

R-77 testing around 18:30

[tavarish palkovnik]

...

Edited April 23 by tavarish palkovnik

[Irisz]

It is important to know that when the ED publishes information about the R-27 ALAMO missile family and uses the currently available websites as a reference that this is the reality, it is actually talking about Ukrainian weapons and not about real Russian and Soviet weapons!

I thought it was important to post this on the forum!

"Насколько я понимаю ситуацию, после распада Советского Союза, «Артем» продолжал выпускать полную линейку ракет и работать в качестве поставщика для российских вооруженных сил и на экспорт для российских истребителей.
После 2014 года было введено эмбарго на все оборонные торги с Россией, «Артем» был отрезан от Госмкб «Вымпел» в Москве, и в настоящее время компания опираясь на свои значительные проектные мощности разрабатывает новую продуктовую линейку на базе Р-27. В стремлении разработать новую линейку продуктов, независимых от российских компонентов, два украинских предприятия — Артем и Радионикс — вступили в кооперацию по программе создания новой версии ракеты воздух-воздух Р-27 «Вымпел». Получается, что цифра 1 используется для обозначения версии собственной разработки. Либо существует договоренность с Вымпелом о том что Артем будет самостоятельно выпускать только экспортный вариант Р-27 с цифрой "1". Чтобы не иметь претензий со стороны Вымпела. Но это только догадки."

"As I understand the situation, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, Artem continued to produce a full line of missiles and operate as a supplier to the Russian military and for export to Russian fighter aircraft.
After 2014, an embargo was introduced on all defense trades with Russia, Artem was cut off from the Vympel State Design Bureau in Moscow, and the company is currently building on its significant design capacity to develop a new product line based on the R-27. In an effort to develop a new line of products independent of Russian components, two Ukrainian enterprises - Artem and Radioniks - entered into cooperation on a program to create a new version of the R-27 Vympel air-to-air missile. It turns out that the number 1 is used to indicate the version of our own development. Or there is an agreement with Vympel that Artem will independently produce only the export version of the R-27 with the number “1”. To avoid any claims from Vympel. But these are just guesses."

http://forums.airforce.ru/sovremennost/7587-mig-29um-ukrainskie-mushki/#post177450

It is important to know that EXPORT products are always WEAKENED and DOWNGRADED products so that they are not dangerous for Russia! It is worth noting why the R-27ER's range of 130 km was reduced to 95 km in DCS World. Let's not even talk about the other R-27... because they use Ukrainian Export data...

In this case, it would be correct if the ED introduced the marking 1 for the missiles and there would be no misunderstanding! However, by using these export Ukrainian products, it is possible to introduce the active homing head, which is sold by Ukraine. This would be a very simple step from ED and the significantly disadvantaged FC3 product could also be revived because it is currently unattractive!

Seen here from left to right are: passive optical homing head “203-T” for use on R-27 missile; passive radar homing head PRGZ Topaz for R-27P missile; active radar homing head Onyx for Coral missile; active radar homing head RGS-03R-X for use with medium-range SAM missiles

Description of old original Vympel export rockets!

There is a misunderstanding somewhere because it is a proven fact that the range of all R-27 ALAMO missiles has decreased in DCS World. Either a business decision or the use of Ukrainian export data instead of original Soviet data, where the range of the original Soviet R-27ER is 130 km range and Ukraine Export R-27ER1 95 km range!

If I misunderstood something, I'm sorry, but at the moment there is official information available only about the weapons marked 1, and these are not real old Soviet weapons, but new ones!

Edit: Modifying these homing heads is not a big task. The IR homing head only needs to adjust its detection distance. The active homing head can be created by rewriting 2 lines, where the semi-active homing head setting is changed to an active homing head.

By the way, the J-11A also uses Ukrainian weapons, not Russian!

There is no solution in the FC2024 product for the accumulation of problems that have existed for 15 years. These are real solutions here. Only the homing head setting needs to be modified or changed. No need for years of development, just rewriting numbers in the code line and creating an active homing head from a semi active homing head. It's not a lot of work, but in return FC2024 will have real appeal! Ukrainian missiles for the J-11A and the Ukrainian Su-27 and MiG-29, the Soviet Flankers and Fulcrums will remain as they are now!

Basically, the R-27ER is a Soviet missile that was put into service in 1990. It has own advantages, for example, a launch range from 0.5 km to 90 km, or a semi-active radar homing head.

However, according to open sources data, the State Joint Stock Holding Company "Artem" worked on the modernization of the R-27ER1 and R-27EP1 missiles before the war, the main component of the work being the improvement of the characteristics of the homing heads of these missiles.

Edited June 9, 2024 by Irisz