Ракеты в DCS

[tavarish palkovnik]

 

Already in active usage 

[tavarish palkovnik]

First iteration about this new one

 

[tavarish palkovnik]

Ready for pusk

 

 

 

[tavarish palkovnik]

Пуск…ракета пошла !

 

 

 

15km altitude scenario, leveled flight, 3G reserve included, some theoretical top high starting velocity, starting weight 200kg.

And ignition of second impulse right after first finish, in 25th second and in 45th second. Pictures show everything so no need to waste words.

This exact, I think, rocket is described in one of the patents. There they mentioned that realistic thrust of second impulse could be 1000kg and weight of rocket, after both impulses are out, in level of 120kg.

Based on the text, idea is to start second impulse in way that it finishes couple seconds before rocket reaches programmed point of impact in target.

And…NO, this rocket doesn’t reach distances 100, 150, 200km as internet already started to drop nonsenses

[MA_VMF]

14 минут назад, tavarish palkovnik сказал:

Пуск…ракета пошла !

 

 

 

15km altitude scenario, leveled flight, 3G reserve included, some theoretical top high starting velocity, starting weight 200kg.

And ignition of second impulse right after first finish, in 25th second and in 45th second. Pictures show everything so no need to waste words.

This exact, I think, rocket is described in one of the patents. There they mentioned that realistic thrust of second impulse could be 1000kg and weight of rocket, after both impulses are out, in level of 120kg.

Based on the text, idea is to start second impulse in way that it finishes couple seconds before rocket reaches programmed point of impact in target.

And…NO, this rocket doesn’t reach distances 100, 150, 200km as internet already started to drop nonsenses

а почему ты решил что время работы всего 60 сек? когда у Р-77-1 120сек, да и сопротивление у тебя довольно высокое 

[tavarish palkovnik]

38 minutes ago, MA_VMF said:

а почему ты решил что время работы всего 60 сек? когда у Р-77-1 120сек, да и сопротивление у тебя довольно высокое 

For drag coefficient function I’m quite confident it shouldn’t be something drastically different than presented. Not first configuration I calculated in old fashioned way

This other issue is open…60 seconds or 120 seconds and are they changed principles (I hope they didn’t) to match cowboys in exaggerating with air-balls hitting one in hundreds case

For now, at least to me, this is reality 

 

 

 

[draconus]

2 hours ago, tavarish palkovnik said:

Pictures show everything so no need to waste words.

Colors need explanation.

[okopanja]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

Colors need explanation.

While the colors would help, the text with basic understanding of motors provides enough information to conclude which use case:

1. red

2. green

3. blue

 

[draconus]

9 hours ago, okopanja said:

1. red

2. green

3. blue

I know colors' names, thanks. I wanted explanation what colored lines represent on the chart.

[okopanja]

4 minutes ago, draconus said:

I know colors' names, thanks. I wanted explanation what colored lines represent on the chart.

Read his comment. He mentions them sequentially, plus later 2 have 2 time designations that you can spot on the diagram.

And yes legend would be graet, but text can do as well.

Edited 13 hours ago by okopanja

[draconus]

4 minutes ago, okopanja said:

Read his comment. He mentions them sequentially, plus later 2 have 2 time designations that you can spot on the diagram.

And yes legend would be graet, but text can do as well.

He doesn't mention colors at all. It's funny because he used to make fun of @MA_VMF for not describing his images.

[okopanja]

11 minutes ago, draconus said:

He doesn't mention colors at all. It's funny because he used to make fun of @MA_VMF for not describing his images.

I am certain he can add some more colorful description next time.

@tavarish palkovniknadam se de se ne ljutite zbog mog komentara: možete da obeležite mišem deo legende u gornjem tekstu i potom odaberete boju sa ovom ikonicom: Siguran sam da će to smanjiti broj nesporazuma.  

Edited 13 hours ago by okopanja

[MicroShket]

It simply shows that the people here have never produced any design documentation. Performing calculations and presenting them properly is not a guessing game. Or I have a bad news for them...

 

[tavarish palkovnik]

1 hour ago, draconus said:

He doesn't mention colors at all. It's funny because he used to make fun of @MA_VMF for not describing his images.

 

I've never made fun with @MA_VMF !!! Actually I apprciate his work a lot

[tavarish palkovnik]

I thought it will be perfectly clear, anyway, red curve is case if second impulse would be started immediately after first one is finished. Green curve is case if second impulse would be started in 25th second and of course blue curve is with started second impulse in 45th second.

One more realistic situation, levelled flight at 10km and starting velocity 500m/s

 

 

First and second impulses one after another, something like dual thrust motor...and case if second impulse would be started when velocity drop to approximately 1M

 

 

Combined cases ->

 

 

Obviously dual impulse is with intention to make rocket with more potential in time when it counts the most, in time when target suppose to be hunted.

 

 

Fact is that such concept, I think in most cases, gives shorter range and rocket is less agile considering total flight time, but when it matters then such rocket is with potential

 

 

 

[tavarish palkovnik]

In any case we will know more and better when first motor case appears, when we see on it specific marks which will give answers. This is actually nothing new, more then 20 years is how much this motor is in connection with multy impulse concept

 

  

 

[draconus]

2 hours ago, tavarish palkovnik said:

I've never made fun with @MA_VMF !!!

Yes, you did. https://forum.dcs.world/topic/78139-rakety-v-dcs/page/556/#findComment-5672192

1 hour ago, tavarish palkovnik said:

I thought it will be perfectly clear, anyway, red curve is case if second impulse would be started immediately after first one is finished. Green curve is case if second impulse would be started in 25th second and of course blue curve is with started second impulse in 45th second.

Now it's all clear. Thanks.

The delayed ignition of the second stage could prove to be a problem in combat though. It'd need constant target data input to calculate the impact time and use it optimally.

[tavarish palkovnik]

13 minutes ago, draconus said:

Yes, you did

Don't advocate for others...others will do it themselves if feel as needed. Out and over

[tavarish palkovnik]

Few more words about new motor...of course dual impulse concept is just thought what could be inside. However sometimes the most simpliest is the most realistic and just simple single thrust motor should not be excluded, motor in form of regular R-77 motor, only on steroids 

 

Why I didn't exclude this...calculated first impulse that I got simply is not powerfull enough to push rocket in lofting. Not enough kilograms of force to lift rocket without significant loss of velocity. It's nice to have second impulse but pointless if first one didn't make good start.

 

 

This is however someting else, this is very powerfull and potent motor. Still not very good solution for levelled flight (same 10km altitude and 500m/s starting velocity) ->

 

 

but...this motor can easily lift starting 200kg in very nice lofting without lossing too much in velocity

 

 

 

Dual thrust concept beside these two remains, but I really don't see such a long 200mm caliber motor in dual thrust concept and I'm not going to consider it 

 

 

 

[nighthawk2174]

On 7/21/2025 at 6:35 AM, tavarish palkovnik said:

I was questioning why and how comes there is no yet on internet drag function for R-77. Really it is not easy to calculate such configuration, actually I'm giving up of it. Simply I don't have enough literature to make some reasonable, at least approximative calculation. All other rockets with normal fins can be quite easily calculated and results were not so bad, actually where had valid data to compare, not bad at all.

There are several paper works but mostly they have focus on drag of individual fin, and I'm interested in full assembly. I was mentioning base pressure, one of the easiest parts of total drag calculation, but here with grid fins I just stuck and don't know how to proceed. And like said already, I'm expecting this part together with pressure on fins to be significantly higher then what is case with classic fins or wings whatever is in aft zone

 

   

 

 

 

Few such aft section surfaces, Phoenix, Sidewinder and Sparrow

 

 

For all these configurations base pressure can be easily calculated, and this ''c'' number (ratio between wing thickness and aerodynamic chord) is for these samples approximately 0,036 ; 0,046 and 0,09.

What grid fins make on body base I have no idea ...

Do you have the original documents these fin diagrams come from?

[l_Phobos_l]

23 часа назад, tavarish palkovnik сказал:

starting weight 200kg

кмк ракета весит кг 220+-10кг. все таки на 30см длиннее 77-1 которая весит 190

[tavarish palkovnik]

42 minutes ago, l_Phobos_l said:

кмк ракета весит кг 220+-10кг. все таки на 30см длиннее 77-1 которая весит 190

That is good point and question in same time. Do we have actually valid document that give 190kg to 77-1 ?

For R-77 sources say 175-177kg and extra 110mm (R-77-1) supposedly made total of 190kg. Now new extra of 300mm made R-77M but this extra 300mm I count only as extra length of motor and that is just propellant and chamber casing what is 15-16kg

 

[MA_VMF]

25 минут назад, tavarish palkovnik сказал:

Это хорошая мысль и вопрос одновременно. Есть ли у нас действительно действительный документ, который дает 190 кг 77-1 ?

Для R-77 источники говорят, что 175-177 кг и дополнительные 110 мм (R-77-1) предположительно составляют 190 кг. Сейчас новый экстра 300мм сделал Р-77М, но эти дополнительные 300мм я считаю только как дополнительную длину мотора, а это только топливо и корпус камеры, что 15-16кг

 

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