Aircraft Trim

[Snake5525]

Hello all

 

Im not sure if this is a bug, but I am unable to trim any aircraft. Ive tried default settings and tried setting other keys including my joystick. Ive reinstalled and patched to 1.11, however none seem to work.

 

thanks for any ideas

 

Snake

[Gazehound]

When you say unable to trim - how are you judging it? By the feel of the plane, or by letting go of the stick. To trim for zero input you need to trim for absolutely ages - and you can't press and hold the keys you have to repeatedly tap them.

To check if your inputs are not being registered at all, have a go in a MiG and look for the 3 trim lights on the lower panel of warning lights to the right (if you use a german MiG the writing on them is in english. When

you enter a trim input a light will go out, ie the smallest touch of aileron/rudder/elevator trim will unlight one lamp.

[Snake5525]

Aircraft Trim

 

Thanks Grazehound

 

I wasnt aware of the trim lights in the MiG. I ran a flight to test this. I used the default key settings for up-down first, then changed assignments to other keys to make sure. The center light did go out, but even after numerous(and I mean numerous) key presses the aircraft continued to climb or decend depending on the thrust settings only, which then could only be corrected by joystick input. Unfortunately this increases the workload, particularly in areas of landing and ground attack(especially with the Frog T). I dont think this is a hardware problem as other keys were used with no effect.

 

Snake

[Ironhand]

Thanks Grazehound

 

(Snipped)...but even after numerous(and I mean numerous) key presses the aircraft continued to climb or decend depending on the thrust settings only, which then could only be corrected by joystick input. Unfortunately this increases the workload, particularly in areas of landing and ground attack(especially with the Frog T).

Snake,

 

Yes. That's what should be happening. There is no magic one-time setting. As lift increase or decreases, your trim setting would also have to be changed. As the km/hr move up or down the scale, trim too has to be altered up or down. While the F-15 is fly-by-wire, the other aircraft in this sim have analogue trim and require constant trimming with changes in airspeed and altitude.

 

But just to make sure there isn't some sort of problem: With your hand off your joystick, do you get full movement--more or less--of the graphical stick in the sim with trim inputs alone? If you do, things are as they should be.

 

I usually trim to more or less neutral. Then, if I change airspeed to the point where I start noticing the stick pressure, I retrim. In ground attack, trim to your expected dive speed. Use your air brake and throttle to keep you close to the dive speed you've trimmed for. Actually, landing is a bit easier to trim for since you'll be playing the throttle against the trim anyway.

 

Rich

[Guest IguanaKing]

The F-15 is not quite FBW, but it does have auto-trim. ;)

[Snake5525]

Aircarft Trim

 

Hi Rich,

 

Ive watched a lot of your vids. Excellent instruction, and great work. I miss the earlier vids on in-flight refueling and carrier landing. which wont play in FC 1.11.

However in reference to what you were saying, I had the aircraft in(relatively) level flight via thrust and joystick input. Now in theory if I trim the aircraft positively or negatively the aircraft "should" do either - accend or decend. And I should also be able to trim for level flight vs thrust setting. Whats happening in my case, is absolutely nothing. All flyable aircraft seem to only react to thrust or joystick input. I cannot trim the aircraft at all. I should be able to trim for landing with say "positive" trim, to maintain a nose high approach, and provided I maintain the correct thrust, decend at a rate I want it too. At the moment I cannot get the program to accept "trim".

 

Snake

[Guest IguanaKing]

Snake, do you have a multi-button joystick of any kind?

[Snake5525]

Aircraft Trim

 

IguanaKing

 

Sure do buddy. Its an older Logitech Wingman FF but all the buttons work. Fact I use the buttons for aircraft lock, flares , airbrakes etc so the old think works ok. It all works on FS9 so I dont believe its a joystick problem. I might add Ive also set trim via the hat but that doesnt work as well, again compounding the ellusive trim delima.

 

cheers

Snake

[Guest IguanaKing]

Actually, I was just wondering about your joystick because the elevator/aileron trim in most fighters is assigned to a hat switch on your stick. Aside from dedicating a hat switch to just trim, I'm not sure what to suggest, other than flying the F-15.

[Snake5525]

Aircraft Trim

 

IK

 

Thanks for your suggestions. I guess Ill have to wait and see there is some sort of patch perhaps. Anyways, enjoying the game since it came out. The guys developing the game have done well, and apart from my small issues of trim I just love it.

 

thanks

Snake

[Guest IguanaKing]

Snake, the issue of constant trim is always going to be there with most of the LOMAC aircraft. I was just suggesting that you assign these trim functions to a hat switch on your stick, so you can constantly be on top of it...that's what's required IRL...either that or constant control/stick pressure depending on flight conditions. ;)

[Snake5525]

Aircraft Trim

 

thanks IK

 

 

Yep. Im afraid no amount of assigning of keys, joystick buttons or hat switches works the "trim", for me at least. Been trying several combinations today. No idea why. So Ill just have to battle on regardless. Everything else works fine. My landings will just have to be a bit on the rough side. What doesnt kill you, make you stronger. Never mind...

 

happy flying

Snake

[Ironhand]

Hi Rich,

 

Ive watched a lot of your vids. Excellent instruction, and great work. I miss the earlier vids on in-flight refueling and carrier landing. which wont play in FC 1.11.

However in reference to what you were saying, I had the aircraft in(relatively) level flight via thrust and joystick input. Now in theory if I trim the aircraft positively or negatively the aircraft "should" do either - accend or decend. And I should also be able to trim for level flight vs thrust setting. Whats happening in my case, is absolutely nothing. All flyable aircraft seem to only react to thrust or joystick input. I cannot trim the aircraft at all. I should be able to trim for landing with say "positive" trim, to maintain a nose high approach, and provided I maintain the correct thrust, decend at a rate I want it too. At the moment I cannot get the program to accept "trim".

 

Snake

Hi Snake,

 

Okay. Sounds like there most definitely is a problem somewhere. You may have already done this but, if you're willing, let's experiment. Then we'll know if it's LOMAC taking exception to your joystick or a bad installation. You'll need to perform each step in the proper order.

1. Unplug your joystick.
   
2. Reboot
   
3. Start LOMAC and go to Options/Inputs/Keyboard
   
4. Click the 'Flight' button
   
5. Scroll down until you find the keyboard trim assignments sandwiched between 'Eject' and 'Select next waypoint of airfield'.
   
6. Is there an assignment for each trim setting (trim up, trim down, etc)? If you've accepted the defaults you should see Trim up=Ctrl-., Trim down=Ctrl-;, etc.
   
7. Assuming the default assignments are there, continue. If not, make the assignments as per the KeyCommands.doc in your LOMAC/Doc folder.
   

 

Okay. Now we're sure that LOMAC is only going to pay attention to your keyboard and the correct key commands are there. Continuing:

1. Open a mission with an A-10, Su-27, -33, or a MiG-29 in the air.
   
2. Unpause.
   
3. Immediately press the 'H' key to engage 'altitude hold'.
   
4. Press the 'Page Up' key a few times to spool up your engines and wait until you have a decent airspeed.
   
5. Press the 'H' key to disengage 'altitude hold'.
   
6. Now press and hold 'CTRL-;(semi-colon)'. Does your nose pitch down?
   
7. Next, press and hold 'CTRL-.(period)'. Does your nose pitch up?
   

If the answer is "no" to those last two questions, you have a bad LOMAC installation. If the answer is "yes" then the sim has issues with your joystick. Actually, I'm expecting your answer to be "yes" but I've been surprised before.

 

Rich

[Ironhand]

The F-15 is not quite FBW, but it does have auto-trim. ;)

That's why I should keep my mouth shut about the F-15. I barely have any time in it and usually put my foot in my mouth when I reference it. Thanks for the correction.

 

Rich

[Snake5525]

Aircraft Trim

 

Thanks Ironhand,

 

You were on the money with that. Although I’m a bit perplexed as to why, only the trim was affected by the Logitech joystick, when all other controls and buttons on the joystick work as assigned. I checked further, and even un-assigning trim controls(default - WiN hat) on the joystick, failed to get the trim on the keyboard work. Puzzling. Good call though. As a matter of interest, what joystick are you using?

many thanks

Snake

[Gazehound]

I have that stick, logitech wingman force feedback (its on its last legs the rudder twist is twitchy) - and RWin and hat seems to trim ok. Not that I ever bother to trim.

[Snake5525]

Aircraft Trim

 

Gazehound

I think my stick is even older than yours. I don’t have rudder. I use separate CH rudders. This stick would be maybe 5 years old. Seems like the end.

Rick

As an afterthought, the keys that I’ve assigned to the joystick work perfectly. For some unknown reason, the “trim” feature is totally disabled when the joystick is activated.

Put this one in the file marked ”What the..”.

Thanks all for your assistance

Snake

[Ironhand]

Thanks Ironhand,

 

(Snipped)

As a matter of interest, what joystick are you using?

[/color]

Snake

I had a similar issue with LOMAC at one point. I had a stick that worked perfectly well until a particular beta build. Then odd things began happening. No amount of tweeking and twitching helped. So I switched to my present stick, the X-45. I don't use it as a hotas, though. I just have some basic buttons set. I still use the keyboard for most things. Old habits die hard.

 

Rich