Missle launch warning on the RWR

[blkspade]

Could have been "Desert Aces".

[Sov13t]

That is called ECM.

[blkspade]

ECM primarily disrupts your ability to engage, as opposed making you think that you're being engaged. The point at which you're confirmed bandit becomes ECM noise, doesn't immediately give you a sense of impending doom.

[Sov13t]

The point at which you're confirmed bandit becomes ECM noise, doesn't immediately give you a sense of impending doom.

 

ECM works in many different ways, and noise jamming is just one of them. Breaking the ability of your enemy to engage you would pretty much render you safe - will it not? So the need to "fake launch" goes away?

 

Regardless, an extending pilot, if in BVR should be safe. If WVR your "fake" launch is going to do little to scare your enemy as he has tally on you, not to mention if we are to assume even a real rear facing missile is being launched the effectiveness of such a launch would be minimal, as numerous tests have shown your target would pretty much have to be in gun range and close to directly at your six.

 

If WVR best thing to do would be to a). Use terrain against the enemy. b). Defensive maneuvering while maintaining visual for launches. c). Break into a defensive notch leading into a merge. It isn't that easy to shoot down a pilot fully committed to defensive measures - it is when that pilot tries to do too much. An unsuspecting agressor in this case will most likely waste his missiles, overshoot the merge and carry to much energy into the gun fight - unless he goes vertical but that is a different subject.

[blkspade]

The core concept is that said fake launch is coming from the targets general direction. As not to make the it seem as the extending target itself is firing, but receiving cover that attacker can not immediately tally (obviously because its not actually there). Using the TEWS as an example, you have no indication of height. If you've become target fixated on a bandit you're chasing down and suddenly get a launch warning 12'oclock close. You have a very limited amount of time to choose the best response, which may or may not include attempting to get a tally on the launch craft.

 

ECM works in many different ways, and noise jamming is just one of them. Breaking the ability of your enemy to engage you would pretty much render you safe - will it not? So the need to "fake launch" goes away?

 

Regardless, an extending pilot, if in BVR should be safe. If WVR your "fake" launch is going to do little to scare your enemy as he has tally on you, not to mention if we are to assume even a real rear facing missile is being launched the effectiveness of such a launch would be minimal, as numerous tests have shown your target would pretty much have to be in gun range and close to directly at your six.

 

If WVR best thing to do would be to a). Use terrain against the enemy. b). Defensive maneuvering while maintaining visual for launches. c). Break into a defensive notch leading into a merge. It isn't that easy to shoot down a pilot fully committed to defensive measures - it is when that pilot tries to do too much. An unsuspecting agressor in this case will most likely waste his missiles, overshoot the merge and carry to much energy into the gun fight - unless he goes vertical but that is a different subject.

[blkspade]

To further point out the potential. Many times in game I'll see a bandit pursuing a friendly trying to extend noticing that he doesn't have the ground speed to escape. If I have AIM7s onboard, (which is nearly always) I'll STT FOX-1 on that bandit not even inside of Rmax, in attempt to trigger that twitch response to take an evasive maneuver that may provide a window for that buddy to get away. This proves to be effective a good portion of the time.

[GGTharos]

Not in the simulator, true.

 

Using the TEWS as an example, you have no indication of height.

[blkspade]

Not in the simulator, true.

 

Well yeah the RL F-15 has loads of things that the aren't in the sim. Following my other example the Russian RWR can approximate height an range, if they are stalking said friendly in EOS or in STT then they aren't determining my rate of closure with radar. Some might look at the RWR and say I should be fine and continue to press on the buddy. As this has room for error it would be wiser to disengage, this would be only area such a hypothetical system would have a purpose. I don't actually endorse it as something to be done, I'm just open minded with a vivid imagination. Its fun to pretend, which is what we are all already doing in some capacity.

 

Imagine a rear facing pod strapped to bomber. Due to size would have limited effective range, but variable in power output to effectively fool an RWR something has fired and closing range.

[Dudikoff]

Not really, modern PD monopulse missiles don't require CW waveforms, the radars transfer to HPRF, tune the missile and launch. As for those that do require CW, it's the switch from PD to CW that can trigger the warning, and the switch happens when you pull the trigger to launch and the missiles start tuning.

 

I said I'm no expert, but if I understand correctly, most radar systems in the last 40-50 years are monopulse so I guess we are discussing either the non-coherent PD or coherent PD radar systems. The first used CW injection to the PD signal (that would mean they don't really "switch" from PD to CW) for SARH guidance, while the second in high-PRF missile guidance mode are using only a central line of the PD spectrum and the resulting signal is pretty much the same as the standard CW signal (hence why it was referred to as interrupted CW) so the basics are pretty much the same and hence why I referred to it as simply CW even if the missile seeker guidance methods are different.

 

Now, if both changes (e.g. CW injection and switching to the central line of the PD spectrum) occur only when the missile is launched (or maybe reaches the terminal phase on more modern SARH variants with MCUs and autopilot) and are never locked on before launch (not counting e.g. the flood mode for the Sparrow and the likes), I stand corrected. I guess it makes sense not to. So, a modern RWR would detect a STT mode with e.g. a continuous tone and then when it detects the missile guidance mode, it will start giving extra warning (e.g. interrupted beeping)?

Edited January 16, 2013 by Dudikoff

[GGTharos]

Something along those lines, yep. I know that the F-15 had the CW illumination switch removed a long time ago for example, but what that really means is anyone's guess.