Slotback radar questions

[S77th-GOYA]

Yes they do :) .

 

Look at the bare metal housings. They are shaped differently.

[SwingKid]

Look at the bare metal housings. They are shaped differently.

 

True enough, the LRU arrangement in the second photo seems unusually compact. I don't know what they're displaying there, maybe an old prototype.

 

The first photo though shows a classic Slot Back configuration common with N-001, N-019 and N-019M. What troubles?

 

-SK

[Whisper]

Another web site about the Algerian Air Forces states the double-engagement feature as well. My French is not that good, however I understood that much:

 

"Le radar du Mig-29S :

 

L’avantage du Mig-29S est son un radar NO-019M combiné à un nouveau système d’arme, qui permettent l’utilisation du nouveau missile autonome R-77 et des variantes longues portées des missiles R-27T/R qui sont les R-27TE et R-27RE.

Le N-019M permet la détection des cibles à 140Km et l'engagement de deux cibles simultanément à plus de 60km avec des missiles R-77 (4 missiles emportés), ou d'une cible à plus de 80km avec des missiles R-27ET/ER (2 missiles emportés). Le Mig-29S peut être équipé avec un large éventail de missiles air-air : R-27TE/RE (longue portée IR/radar), R-27T/R (moyenne portée IR/radar), R-60, R-73(courte portée IR) et R-77 (moyenne portée avec radar actif)."

 

http://membres.lycos.fr/algaf/mig29.htm

 

This is the key statement: "...et l'engagement de deux cibles simultanément à plus de 60km avec des missiles R-77... "

 

Just FYI, a lil translation :

 

 

Mig-29S radar :

 

Mig-29S advantage relies on its NO-019M radar combined with a new weapon system, permitting the use of the new "autonomous missile" ( I guess they mean ARH) R-77, and long-range variants of R-27R/R missiles, named R-27TE and R-27RE.

 

The N-019M can detect targets up to 140km and can engage 2 targets simultaneously up to 60km with R-77 missiles (4 missiles on loadout), or 1 target at more than 80km with R-27ET/ER missiles (2 missiles on loadout). The Mig-29S can be equipped with a large panel of Air to Air missiles : R-27TE/RE (long range IR/Radar), R-27T/R (medium range IR/Radar), R-60, R-73 (short range IR) and R-77 (medium range with active radar).

[Trident]

Could those images be showing the difference between N019 and N019M (the second image is referred to as such by the website and is called TOPAZM)?

 

The article talking about 8 R-77 might be getting MiG-versions mixed up, the MiG-29M and K had 4 pylons on each wing for a maximum of 8 Adders.

[S77th-GOYA]

Could those images be showing the difference between N019 and N019M (the second image is referred to as such by the website and is called TOPAZM)?

 

They come from different sites so it can't be for comparison. Plus, the N-019 isn't called the Topaz, it's called the Rubin. The first pic is called TOPAZ1.

[Trident]

Yes, I realize that, what I meant is that they may be showing different versions of the radar. Nothing about the first pic or its context on the website it is found on suggest that the image shows N019M, while the second one is clearly labeled to be that variant on the (other) webpage.

 

Alfa is right about the protective covers, and a prototype (like SK suggests) or incomplete showroom unit are certainly possible aswell.

[S77th-GOYA]

Nothing about the first pic or its context on the website it is found on suggest that the image shows N019M...

 

Sure it does. It is labelled "TOPAZ".

[Alfa]

Yes, I realize that, what I meant is that they may be showing different versions of the radar. Nothing about the first pic or its context on the website it is found on suggest that the image shows N019M, while the second one is clearly labeled to be that variant on the (other) webpage.

 

Alfa is right about the protective covers, and a prototype (like SK suggests) or incomplete showroom unit are certainly possible aswell.

 

Yes I agree - it could be anything from a prototype, a test unit, a semi-assembled showroom unit to show the "intestines" or even a "dummy" radar block serving the purpose of mounting bracket for the antenna assembly :)

 

Anyway, I agree with Swingkid that regardless of what this particular photo shows, there can be little doubt that the N019M has the same cassegrain antenna as the N019 base version.

 

To indicate otherwise, you would need to find a photo showing a clearly identifiable N019 block with a flat plate antenna - rather than a weird looking radar block with a clearly identifiable parabolic antenna ;) .

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Alfa]

Sure it does. It is labelled "TOPAZ".

 

Goya a photo caption means nothing......many people think the baseline N019 carries the "Topaz" nickname.

 

If you look at one of the sources quoted earlier:

 

"The SUV (OEPrNK-29E2) weapon system features N-109 pulse-doppler radar S-29 TOPAZ or its export version N-019E Rubin; NATO 'SLOT BACK'. The newer N-019/3A ZHUK RLPK-29E coherent multi-mode radar is integrated to the aircraft for later installations.

 

...you can see just how confused things can get - designations are flying around with neither head nor tail to it :icon_roll .

 

a). "SUV" is the abbreviation for the WCS and does not stand alone - it is followed by a number indicating the aircraft for which it was designed...e.g.

 

SUV-29 = MiG-29

SUV-29S = MiG-29S

SUV-27 = Su-27

SUV-33 = Su-33

 

..etc.

 

b). there is no such thing as a "N-109" radar.

 

MiG-29(9-12 and 9-13) = N019 "Rubin"

MiG-29S (9-13S) = N019M "Topaz".

MiG-29SM (9-13M) = N019MP (with added a2g modes - AFAIK also called "Topaz")

MiG-29SMT (9-17) = N019MP (same as above)

 

MiG-29SMT-2 = N010M "Zhuk-M"

 

The "Zhuk" name has nothing to do with the N019, but covers an entire line of variations over the more modern N010 multifunctional radar design with slotted array antenna - the above mentioned "Zhuk-M" is the most recent incarnation of this radar(comparable with the APG-73) and will be shared by the new MiG-29M/M2, new MiG-29K(9-41 ordered by India) and, as mentioned above, by the SMT-2 upgrade. An enlarged version(larger antenna) of this radar called Zhuk-MS was installed in the Su-27KUB(Su-33UB) twin-seat naval trainer prototype. The most recent "Zhuk" derrivative - the "Zhuk-MSF" comes with an electronically scanned passive phased array antenna instead of the slotted array.

 

Hmm....ok so I got carried away :biggrin: .

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[peterj]

How do 'electronically scanned passive phased array' radars work compared to AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array)? :)

[S77th-GOYA]

Goya a photo caption means nothing......

 

Then SwingKid's pics prove nothing at all, right?