Black Shark I don't want to wait

[Maverick-90]

The 1.2 is the last addon for LockOn so no more flyable aircrafts/helo after that

That's waht is said now, it might just change after 1.2 comes out....:icon_jook

and.....i Hope it Will!

[Alfa]

Really? Neither the Germans nor the Indians had anything nice to say about the maintainability of their Russian aircraft ...

 

Yet India keeps buying them despite having other options - something tells me that someone played up the maintenance issue for a reason ;)

 

Also I have read fairly extensive accounts of the Luftwaffe´s operation of MiG-29 published by representatives of Luftwaffe - maintenance crew as well as pilots, and those left an altogether different impression than the one you seem to have.

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Alfa]

To name one: Iran-Iraq war: AH-1 vs Mi-24

 

....involving air-to-air combat between these helicopters?.

 

Anyway, are you saying that you think inter-engagements between helicopters is a "must" for accurately depicting the role of the attack helicopter on the battlefield?

 

The 1.2 is the last addon for LockOn so no more flyable aircrafts/helo after that

 

Really?......what exactly do you know about that?

 

- JJ.

[Sundowner.pl]

Yet India keeps buying them despite having other options - something tells me that someone played up the maintenance issue for a reason ;)

India is buying MiG-29K because they are cheap and can work with Admiral Gorshkov without any modifications. As for Su-30 MKI, bare in mind that for India the avionics is French made.

 

Also I have read fairly extensive accounts of the Luftwaffe´s operation of MiG-29 published by representatives of Luftwaffe - maintenance crew as well as pilots, and those left an altogether different impression than the one you seem to have.

German ground crews lowered RD-33s performance to raise the time between scheduled repair (from 300h to 720h) + they modified most of their equipment and tools to deal with their MiGs, they have also modified the aircrafts changing their avionics to be more reliable and meet NATO standards. Remember, MiG-29 is frontline fighter and like most of Soviet made equipment it wasn't design for peace time.

 

....involving air-to-air combat between these helicopters?.

Yes, the scores were:

AH-1J - 6 HIND kills

Mi-24W - 10 Cobra kills

 

you can find some info about engagements during November 1980, 4th April 1981, September 1981, 5th February 1983 and 13th February 1986.

 

And a fun fact: most of the kills were achieved using wire guided missiles.

 

Anyway, are you saying that you think inter-engagements between helicopters is a "must" for accurately depicting the role of the attack helicopter on the battlefield?

No, I'm saying that this would boost the gameplay, and made whole addon more cost worthy

[Yellonet]

Low and slow you can go, when you have trees behind which you can hide. Here the trees are transparent for any optics and radar. In this sim, in this helo you can live only in mountain areas... and only for a while.

 

Hovering won't do you good, you can't beam radar in the helo, because there is no way it will miss those huge rotating blades.

I'm hoping that there will be some changes to this with the release of 1.2... anything else would be a dissapointment.

And if you hover, a pulse doppler radar should disregard the helo as 'ground'.

[Yellonet]

I just had to post this:

http://www.aero-web.org/database/aircraft/getimage.htm?id=4896

[Sundowner.pl]

And if you hover, a pulse doppler radar should disregard the helo as 'ground'.

No it won't. Like I said it will pick up fast movement of your main Rotor blades.

[GGTharos]

Actually the doppler signal from the blades ought to average out to zero when the radar processes it - remember, it's resolution at range can be several tens of meters.

[Yellonet]

No it won't. Like I said it will pick up fast movement of your main Rotor blades.

Really. Even though the helo isn't moving neither towards, away from or perpendicular to the radar, save a few meters back and forth as the rotor is revolving.

[Sundowner.pl]

Actually the doppler signal from the blades ought to average out to zero when the radar processes it - remember, it's resolution at range can be several tens of meters.

I have to disagree with you, the rotating blades give a very strong echo, and can be seen by radar from long ranges, a helo like Mi-8 have RCS of the rotor itself in 8m^2 range (6 or less for new composite ones). Two more and it shows like F-15 on your radar. The only problem is with tracking helos flying NOE, you got many interference from the ground, from trees, buildings etc. but using AN/APG-63v1 you can easily track Hip or Hind from 30-45nm as long as there are no obstacles between you and the target.

 

Really. Even though the helo isn't moving neither towards, away from or perpendicular to the radar, save a few meters back and forth as the rotor is revolving.

Thats enough for radar which wavelength is in millimeters. Trust me on this one, I live all my life with helos and their crews.

[GGTharos]

I have to disagree with you, the rotating blades give a very strong echo, and can be seen by radar from long ranges, a helo like Mi-8 have RCS of the rotor itself in 8m^2 range (6 or less for new composite ones). Two more and it shows like F-15 on your radar. The only problem is with tracking helos flying NOE, you got many interference from the ground, from trees, buildings etc. but using AN/APG-63v1 you can easily track Hip or Hind from 30-45nm as long as there are no obstacles between you and the target.

 

Right, so you didn't understand what I said. The RCS can be the size of a B-52, but if the DOPPLER SHIFT ends up being zero, the radar won't show a target.

[Shaman]

Really?......what exactly do you know about that?

 

- JJ.

1.2 is the last addon for LockOn, Alfa.

AFAIK contract between UBI and ED allows ED to do 2 addons maksimum.

After that ED must consider new title.

[Yellonet]

I have to disagree with you, the rotating blades give a very strong echo, and can be seen by radar from long ranges, a helo like Mi-8 have RCS of the rotor itself in 8m^2 range (6 or less for new composite ones). Two more and it shows like F-15 on your radar. The only problem is with tracking helos flying NOE, you got many interference from the ground, from trees, buildings etc. but using AN/APG-63v1 you can easily track Hip or Hind from 30-45nm as long as there are no obstacles between you and the target.

 

Thats enough for radar which wavelength is in millimeters. Trust me on this one, I live all my life with helos and their crews.

Ok, I'll take your word for it. I'll just have to go down by the trees and hope for the best when they start tracking me then ;)

[Sundowner.pl]

Right, so you didn't understand what I said. The RCS can be the size of a B-52, but if the DOPPLER SHIFT ends up being zero, the radar won't show a target.

If it would... but it won't. The echo from blade that is going forward will be always stronger than one from blade moving backwards. For specific physics equations to show you that I will have to talk first with guys in radar station here, thy can keep track on hovering Haze 80nm off the shore so they have to know the mathematic answer to this ;)

[GGTharos]

Nice, that was an answer I wanted to hear ;)

[britgliderpilot]

1.2 is the last addon for LockOn, Alfa.

AFAIK contract between UBI and ED allows ED to do 2 addons maksimum.

After that ED must consider new title.

 

Funny, I always thought it was one addon maximum.

 

 

I imagine Alfa is pretty clued up on this sort of thing ;)

[Yellonet]

The blades are going supersonic at the edge, right?

So the doppler effect would be twice that, quite large that is.

But the RCS of the utmost parts of the rotors aren't that big... so I guess it comes down to some kind of average of RCS and doppler effect of the combined area of the rotor... but it makes sense that it can be tracked I guess.

[Alfa]

India is buying MiG-29K because they are cheap

 

Cheap? - do you know what the price of a MiG-29K is? :)

 

and can work with Admiral Gorshkov without any modifications.

 

"Without any modifications" - are you serious?! :biggrin: .

 

For a start the MiG-29K design was indeed modified specifically for embarkment on the Admiral Gorshkov(changed wing design), secondly they ordered an entirely new two-seat combat trainer variant(MiG-29KUB) - being developed specifically for the this order(didnt exist previously) and finally......they(India) are spending close to $1 billion(!) to have the Gorshkov modified for operating the MiG-29K - includng the installation of arrestor gear which the vessel didnt have previously(being designed for the Yak-41 VSTOL)

 

As for Su-30 MKI, bare in mind that for India the avionics is French made.

 

First off "the avionics" arent French made - some of the instrumentation was, but then so what?.

 

German ground crews lowered RD-33s performance to raise the time between scheduled repair (from 300h to 720h) + they modified most of their equipment and tools to deal with their MiGs, they have also modified the aircrafts changing their avionics to be more reliable and meet NATO standards. Remember, MiG-29 is frontline fighter and like most of Soviet made equipment it wasn't design for peace time.

 

Well I dont really disagree with the above, but then I dont really see how that proves that Luftwaffe was particulary unhappy with the servicability of their MiGs - that is - apart from them being in a horible state of repair when they first inherited them from the East German airforce and having to strip them down and pretty much do a total refurbish to make them airworthy again.....but that was due to years of complete negliance from their previous owners.

 

I also remember reading that they initially decreased the engine performance because they were short of replacement engines/parts to begin with, but later declared that they no longer had any problems with supplies and that it wouldnt be a problem to re-tune the engines to their original performance if desired. As far as the avionics changes are concerned - these were simply made in order for them comply with Nato regulations - including a change of instrumentation read-out from metric to the imperial system.

 

Yes, the scores were:

AH-1J - 6 HIND kills

Mi-24W - 10 Cobra kills

 

you can find some info about engagements during November 1980, 4th April 1981, September 1981, 5th February 1983 and 13th February 1986.

 

And a fun fact: most of the kills were achieved using wire guided missiles.

 

I see - I will accept that as factual information, although I reserve the right to be sceptical(to say the least) when it comes to the multitude of kill claims made during that conflict.

 

No, I'm saying that this would boost the gameplay, and made whole addon more cost worthy

 

Ok then so at least we agree on one thing - I disagree that it would be such a boost to gameplay, but you are of course entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.....but I am curious about what you mean by it making the "whole addon more cost worthy"?

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[britgliderpilot]

Nice, that was an answer I wanted to hear ;)

 

Aha!

 

Radar station is stationary, they usually don't work on doppler.

 

Did anyone else spot that? ;)

 

 

The forward speed of the blades may fall outside the doppler gate and hence be detectable, but presumably you need a large enough RCS of the blade in order to do that . . . . and there I imagine things get pretty interesting

 

Averaging out of doppler shifts over the span of the blades, though . . . . I think I'm going to go crosseyed . . . .

[Yellonet]

Aha!

 

Radar station is stationary, they usually don't work on doppler.

 

Did anyone else spot that? ;)

I'm not so knowledgable on radars so I didn't know.

 

 

The forward speed of the blades may fall outside the doppler gate and hence be detectable, but presumably you need a large enough RCS of the blade in order to do that . . . . and there I imagine things get pretty interesting

 

Averaging out of doppler shifts over the span of the blades, though . . . . I think I'm going to go crosseyed . . . .

I was thinking in the same lines...

[Alfa]

1.2 is the last addon for LockOn, Alfa.

 

Gee thanks for telling me Shamandgg - now my ill informed fellow beta testers and I know where we stand :biggrin:

 

AFAIK contract between UBI and ED allows ED to do 2 addons maksimum.

After that ED must consider new title.

 

You think you need to pick up on the "current affairs" and ED´s intentions and plans ;)

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

[Guest IguanaKing]

Aha!

 

Radar station is stationary, they usually don't work on doppler.

 

Did anyone else spot that? ;)

 

I spotted it...but he also said the radar station was tracking off-shore haze, so that particular station might be a doppler weather radar...not quite the same as a PSR. ;)

[Sundowner.pl]

Cheap? - do you know what the price of a MiG-29K is? :)

Compare its price with Rafale-M, Su-33 and F/A-18E/F (the C/D aren't made enymore). And the MiG is sold with Gorshkov as one battle system, with any other aircaft the cost would be even bigger.

 

The radar station we got here is Pulse Doppler, so don't worry about that one.

[britgliderpilot]

I spotted it...but he also said the radar station was tracking off-shore haze, so that particular station might be a doppler weather radar...not quite the same as a PSR. ;)

 

Well, I took the capital H to mean that he was talking about an Mi-14 - Haze being the NATO reporting name for that aircraft ;)

 

 

I see it is a PD radar system - for some reason I'd thought ground-based radars weren't usually PD. Something to do with not needing to filter so much clutter.

[Sundowner.pl]

That guy above me was Right I was refering to Mil Mi-14 Haze, both ASW and SAR versions we have here.

 

So how does it feel when somebody talk about you in 3rd person ?