From huey back to ka50

[ff4life4]

Sorry for the triple post but this was a post from Nate many years ago

 

This old debate again .... :)

 

The trim is 2 systems working together.

 

1 is for holding the stick position and

2 is setting the 20% autopilot control authority for holding pitch, bank and heading positions, this control authority is NOT transferred to the stick position.

 

You cannot tell the amount of control input the autopilot is using. So when the trim button is pressed, the autopilots 20% authority disappears instantly -- > usually manifesting in a pitch up after accelerating slightly after trim was set.

 

If you try to replicate this with the Flight director on, the pitch up should not appear at all.

 

Nate

[YeaImRota]

 

Doesn't sound like push-correct-release to me.

 

I kinda like the trim button spam mentality, so I hope this gets fixed. I'm kinda used to it now though. I think I sometimes subconsciously immediately counteract the overtrim and retrim.

 

 

Yeah but the main thing is that a real Ka-50 cyclic holds its position when the trimmer is pressed. You can only get that effect in a sim with a force feedback joystick, which most of even the highest end consumer ones are not. Therefore it works more intuitively to hold the trimmer, move the stick into position, then release.

 

It's not 100% realistic, but it's close enough.

[karambiatos]

Yeah but the main thing is that a real Ka-50 cyclic holds its position when the trimmer is pressed. You can only get that effect in a sim with a force feedback joystick, which most of even the highest end consumer ones are not. Therefore it works more intuitively to hold the trimmer, move the stick into position, then release.

 

It's not 100% realistic, but it's close enough.

 

it works more intuitively if you are used to it, for me its more intuitive to click the trimmer.

[Fri13]

It does indeed feel easier to fly after flying the Huey, but those rotors on the Blackshark are way easier to tear off because of the Huey's rugged rotors.

 

Don't know about that, it is way too easy to get mast pumping happen with Huey and your whole rotor is going.

 

With KA-50 it is easy just to remember that when you get the warning limits, lower collective. And before doing crazy maneuvers, lower collective.

 

I only get KA-50 to clash its rotors when I am flying on route and someone in multiplayer pauses the game without warning. 80% of the cases when they then resume the game KA-50 pulls back 45 degrees and....

Thats why we have a rule that fixed wing pilots are not allowed to pause game without confirmation of all KA-50 pilots ;)

[Fri13]

Yeah but the main thing is that a real Ka-50 cyclic holds its position when the trimmer is pressed. You can only get that effect in a sim with a force feedback joystick, which most of even the highest end consumer ones are not. Therefore it works more intuitively to hold the trimmer, move the stick into position, then release.

 

It's not 100% realistic, but it's close enough.

 

Not mine set but G940:

 

 

 

It really makes KA-50 flying much better when having FF joystick and trim reset cyclic position where you trimmed. Trying to fly a KA-50 after that without FF has been a "bad experience".

[seikdel]

Yeah but the main thing is that a real Ka-50 cyclic holds its position when the trimmer is pressed. You can only get that effect in a sim with a force feedback joystick, which most of even the highest end consumer ones are not. Therefore it works more intuitively to hold the trimmer, move the stick into position, then release.

 

It's not 100% realistic, but it's close enough.

 

I'll add one more point to this. I asked a buddy who flies the Longbow about trimming technique, and he reported that it all comes down to personal preference. Some pilots hold and maneuver, some maneuver and tap, and some trim for 120kt IAS and then do all their maneuvering from there without re-trimming. All of these are valid techniques in the Shark (you'll have to key your heading channel a fair bit for the last one), and so our argument about what method is "real" is moot. Use whatever technique you prefer to get the chopper to accomplish the mission.

[karambiatos]

whether the trim technique is real or not indeed is moot, but the fact that the trim is different from BS1, and in a bad way at that, remains.

 

again, when you trim at 10 degrees and center the stick, the helicopter shouldn't go all the way down to 15 or 20 degrees, there is no way in hell the actual ka-50 does this, because it would be quite unsafe, and that goes double in high stress situations, when the pilot could press trim and suddenly the helicopter would find it self at an insane angle.

 

the oposite also happens, when you trim at +10 degrees it goes up to +15 or 20 degrees, the bank is also affected by this over trimming, some times if youve trimmed forward it and move your joystick a bit forward and then trim again, the helicopter will pitch up quite violently.

 

the only way to stop the helicopter doing this is to hold the trim button move your joystick and release, limiting players to one trim technique, which if its intentional is quite a bad decision in my opinion.

Edited October 3, 2013 by karambiatos

[Havner]

wether its real or not indeed is moot, but the fact that the trim is different from BS1, in a bad way, remains.

 

again, when you trim at 10 degrees and center the stick, the helicopter shouldn't go all the way down to 15 or 20 degrees, there is no way in hell the actual ka-50 does this, because it would be quite unsafe, and that goes double in high stress situations, when the pilot could press trim and suddenly the helicopter would find it self at an insane angle.

 

And again. It is perfectly valid (strange but valid) and it behaves exactly the same way in BS1 as BS2 (I checked recently).

 

Some explanations for this behavior are in this thread: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=114496

 

Basically when you pitch down AP is trying to get you back to its reference point so it adds some input 'against' your stick position. When you hit the trimmer the AP is disengaged in an instant removing its input. Only your stick input remains. So for the rotor the input changed in a moment by up to 20%. Hence the 'jump'. Try the same thing in FD mode. Maneuver without trim and hit it afterwards. You won't observe any 'jump'. AP is disengaged in FD so it doesn't add any input.

 

Seems that the only valid option for BS pilot is to hold trim while maneuvering. Not hit it afterwards.