AI UH-1H can now fire M134 minigun

[number3]

DCS 1.2.6 Update 1 was released: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=1892527&postcount=2

 

DCS: UH-1H Huey

• Fixed M134 minigun fire audio.
  
• AI UH-1H can now fire M134 minigun.
  
• Fixed autostart.
  
• Flexible sight line of sight is now controlled separately from view camera control.
  

 

Not sure what "Flexible sight line of sight is now controlled separately from view camera control." means though.

 

Anyone?

[jay43]

Yeah i am not sure what this means yet i thought they gave us back control of flexi from pilots seat as in the first launch i use to have bound to one of my POV hat switches which i tried again but doesn't seem to work.

 

Unless i am supposed to clear all my previous settings and start all over again as we did with the new throttle last time.

[number3]

It possibly requires that. Seems to be a common requirement when new updates are release.

[VanjaB]

What about the second point? Does it refer to AI helicopters, or the AI gunner in our helicopter?

[Flagrum]

I was hoping for something like, use TIR for looking around but use mouse to move the sight around (independently from TIR).

 

But what I found while experimenting with it is just, sorry to be so blunt, total crap.

 

Sitting on seat #2, the view changes according to the TIR - so far so good. The sight moves, if under Options "TIR aiming" is enabled. That is the same as before (and thus, no improvement). Okay. But mouse movements shift the view. And that only in one plane. I.e. you don't "turn your head around", you can only shift your head up/down and left/right.

 

a) what is that silly movement option for the view good for anyways?

b) it does not control the sight. aiming is (still) only possible with TIR aiming enabled

 

and

 

c) pressing the left mouse button starts firing and it doesn't stop! Only LALT+SPACE (gunners "fire/releas weapon") will stop it. Seriously ... WTF?

 

In summary: shooting as co-pilot = totally broken now.

 

edit: and yes, I did delete all my Huey input mappings before testing.

 

edit2: re-posted in bug forum

Edited October 2, 2013 by Flagrum

[Furious]

I was hoping for something like, use TIR for looking around but use mouse to move the sight around (independently from TIR).

 

But what I found while experimenting with it is just, sorry to be so blunt, total crap.

 

Sitting on seat #2, the view changes according to the TIR - so far so good. The sight moves, if under Options "TIR aiming" is enabled. That is the same as before (and thus, no improvement). Okay. But mouse movements shift the view. And that only in one plane. I.e. you don't "turn your head around", you can only shift your head up/down and left/right.

 

a) what is that silly movement option for the view good for anyways?

b) it does not control the sight. aiming is (still) only possible with TIR aiming enabled

 

and

 

c) pressing the left mouse button starts firing and it doesn't stop! Only LALT+SPACE (gunners "fire/releas weapon") will stop it. Seriously ... WTF?

 

In summary: shooting as co-pilot = totally broken now.

 

edit: and yes, I did delete all my Huey input mappings before testing.

 

+1 WTF is going on. Are these things even tested before we get to play guinea pigs?

 

PS, you need to enable trackIR aiming, then it behaves very much like it used to (with trackIR or the mouse if you pause trackIR). The only thing that's messed up is that the gun fires continuously until you press AltSpace. This is extremely annoying - the mouse click on/off was much much better.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Furious
change]

[Flagrum]

+1 WTF is going on. Are these things even tested before we get to play guinea pigs?

 

PS, you need to enable trackIR aiming, then it behaves very much like it used to (with trackIR or the mouse if you pause trackIR). The only thing that's messed up is that the gun fires continuously until you press AltSpace. This is extremely annoying - the mouse click on/off was much much better.

The new mouse view stuff is useless and as it is unnecessary. I think/hope that BST hat something else in mind here - like I said, independent moving of the head and aiming the sight with the mouse. Moving the sight with the head ... lol, that is just silly. The alternative, disabling TIR, to aim with the mouse is also silly.

 

So I see this as a new bug ... and yeah, not even to speak of the LMB fire function ...

[Flagrum]

I assume this means an AI chopper and not your copilot..

I tested this and can confirm it.

 

AI Helo was running in, firing rockets. When out of rockets, it returned, came to a hover and shot target after target with the mini guns.

 

Not sure, if the AI can/will use the miniguns while in flight (as opposed to be in hover). Could produce a serious sitting-duck effect ...

[Suchacz]

+1 WTF is going on. Are these things even tested before we get to play guinea pigs?

Do you know what the word "BETA" means?

[jay43]

Do you know what the word "BETA" means?

 

 

I am getting tired of hearing this Beta stuff may as well say all the governments in the world are still in Beta.

[jay43]

I tested this and can confirm it.

 

AI Helo was running in, firing rockets. When out of rockets, it returned, came to a hover and shot target after target with the mini guns.

 

Not sure, if the AI can/will use the miniguns while in flight (as opposed to be in hover). Could produce a serious sitting-duck effect ...

 

Sounds good to me let the AI come to a hoover that should take the heat off you so you can go in with rockets.

 

Let the AI go in first like lambs to the slaughter.

[Suchacz]

I am getting tired of hearing this Beta stuff may as well say all the governments in the world are still in Beta.

beta is not an excuse for everything wrong in the world. Sure it needs to be taken into account..

No it is not an excuse. But if anybody find something he means is faulty, he should report it in an appropriate part of the forum in more friendlier manner. There is no need to be offensive...

 

Sorry, I'm a little bit oldschool... :D

Edited October 2, 2013 by Suchacz

[Flagrum]

Do you know what the word "BETA" means?

Does it mean, that more and more stuff gets broken over time? :noexpression:

[jay43]

:music_whistling:

 

beta is not an excuse for everything wrong in the world. Sure it needs to be taken into account..

 

Me too Tommy sick of hearing it, do they just roll this stuff out without testing it first, seems every module is in beta even the A10c is still having issues after all this time.

 

They fix something and something else breaks it just doesn't add up and how many more hoops do we have to jump through to get things working again i just can't get my head round it.

 

Ok i know they are a small company but seriously what is going on.

[number3]

Can someone post a video of this behaviour? I'm at work right now but can watch a video :)

[Furious]

Do you know what the word "BETA" means?

 

You're right Suchacz, I jumped the gun a little, which is why I wrote a PS. The copilot gun system is now the same as it was before, we got the sounds of the gun back too. That's good. Now why on earth they changed the firing keys is beyond me.

 

My initial response was written when I couldn't use the sight (had to turn trackIR aim on- which I had never done in the past), and that pissed me off. Should have counted to ten. Up to there you're right.

 

Your comment about betas is not justified though. We used to buy games that worked, ok they needed tweaking, but they worked. Then it moved to beta releases, which now really is used to cover up everything that doesn't work and should by now. We have games in beta for years. Kinda bullshit if you ask me. The next step in this unfortunate progression is people asking me for money for a product they haven't even started to build yet. I don't mind that, but I'd like some return on my investment. When I lend the bank money, they pay me.

 

I wonder what the next step will be....

[lennycutler]

I test the fix to the A

I use of mini guns.

 

I set up a simple mission...AI claims running in..and they do...but the do not fire their weapons.

Not rockets, not guns.

 

I had fixed the problem before with an edit to the config/weapons file to the respective lua file...but even that fix no longer works.

 

So...some please confirm if they have indeed fixed this problem...because for me it is still broken.

[Flagrum]

I test the fix to the A

I use of mini guns.

 

I set up a simple mission...AI claims running in..and they do...but the do not fire their weapons.

Not rockets, not guns.

 

I had fixed the problem before with an edit to the config/weapons file to the respective lua file...but even that fix no longer works.

 

So...some please confirm if they have indeed fixed this problem...because for me it is still broken.

You are talking about an AI wingman? Hrm, interesting. What I tested was an independent AI Huey - he did quite well with smashing the targets, though.

[xxJohnxx]

Hi,

 

Your comment about betas is not justified though. We used to buy games that worked, ok they needed tweaking, but they worked. Then it moved to beta releases, which now really is used to cover up everything that doesn't work and should by now. We have games in beta for years. Kinda bullshit if you ask me. The next step in this unfortunate progression is people asking me for money for a product they haven't even started to build yet. I don't mind that, but I'd like some return on my investment. When I lend the bank money, they pay me.

 

I really disagree with that part of your post. Nobody forced you to buy the beta module.

If you wanted to, you could have waited for the final release, which just takes longer, as bugfixing and coding takes up anormous ammounts of time.

Belsimtek is a probably a small group of flight sim entusiasts which try to create AddOns for DCS.

They are not big multi million dollar companies, like EA. They most probably don't have unlimited funds to pay for their food, home, heating, etc. So it is more than understandable that they will find some way to get some money before actually finishing the last 100% of the module. That's the point where the Betas come in very handy. You can sell a product before it is finished, to people which normaly understand that it is not finished yet, and get some cash to live from until you finish the product.

 

This has also some good points for the customers. At the day the UH-1H was released, you got pretty early access on a helicopter that was more than "just flyable". Yes there where and are some things missing, however nothing fundamentally game breaking. You can fly the helicopter, you can fire some guns, some rockets (sporadically also some parts which come off) and you can have good fun. I got something like a rough 160 - 200 hours in the Huey and the Mi-8 combinied. For those 160 to 200 hours I payed a 100$ (take away that 70% gift cupon early buyers of the Mi-8 got).

That means an average hour of playing Belsimtek products cost me about 2$.

Good luck finding another free time entertainment that costs that little.

 

However, if you don't like to fly an unfinished module, just wait for it's release. Nobody forced you to buy it. Nobody will force you to buy another beta.

In the mean time the people who could accept the fact that the product is not finished yet, have fun with it.

So everybody will get that what he wants. Everything cool :thumbup:

 

Please keep in mind: Altough this post was a direct response Furious's post, this should not be taken personal to him. This post is not intended to offend anybody, and if it does, I do appologize.

 

Best regards and happy flying,

 

Jonathan

 

:smilewink:

[Flagrum]

Hi,

 

 

 

I really disagree with that part of your post. Nobody forced you to buy the beta module.

If you wanted to, you could have waited for the final release, which just takes longer, as bugfixing and coding takes up anormous ammounts of time.

Belsimtek is a probably a small group of flight sim entusiasts which try to create AddOns for DCS.

They are not big multi million dollar companies, like EA. They most probably don't have unlimited funds to pay for their food, home, heating, etc. So it is more than understandable that they will find some way to get some money before actually finishing the last 100% of the module. That's the point where the Betas come in very handy. You can sell a product before it is finished, to people which normaly understand that it is not finished yet, and get some cash to live from until you finish the product.

 

This has also some good points for the customers. At the day the UH-1H was released, you got pretty early access on a helicopter that was more than "just flyable". Yes there where and are some things missing, however nothing fundamentally game breaking. You can fly the helicopter, you can fire some guns, some rockets (sporadically also some parts which come off) and you can have good fun. I got something like a rough 160 - 200 hours in the Huey and the Mi-8 combinied. For those 160 to 200 hours I payed a 100$ (take away that 70% gift cupon early buyers of the Mi-8 got).

That means an average hour of playing Belsimtek products cost me about 2$.

Good luck finding another free time entertainment that costs that little.

 

However, if you don't like to fly an unfinished module, just wait for it's release. Nobody forced you to buy it. Nobody will force you to buy another beta.

In the mean time the people who could accept the fact that the product is not finished yet, have fun with it.

So everybody will get that what he wants. Everything cool :thumbup:

 

Please keep in mind: Altough this post was a direct response Furious's post, this should not be taken personal to him. This post is not intended to offend anybody, and if it does, I do appologize.

 

Best regards and happy flying,

 

Jonathan

 

:smilewink:

What triggered this beta discussion (again and again and again) was that new bugs were introduced. Features that worked in the last version don't anymore. Besides the, in my opinion hugely improved AFM (that change of the collective stuff), we are now roughly at a state of 1.2.5 with the Huey's features. But we must not complain, because it's beta? We must not be disappointed when formerly working features cease to work?

 

It is not that anyone demands a bug free product. But perhaps a "less buggy than before"?

 

edit: don't get me wrong - i am by no means saying "huey is buggy like hell, huey is crap". I love the huey and all what we can do with it. already. But for example, I was really hoping that the co-pilot would now be usable as gunner. Instead he is now more useless than before. That's "all". :o)

Edited October 2, 2013 by Flagrum

[jay43]

Hi John,

 

I have the upmost respect for you, as you are the most politest person i have ever come across both in the forums we are members of and even TS.

 

So i have to say it does pain me some what but then i calm down take a deep breath and oh well just have to wait but the more they try to fix stuff it just breaks something else.

 

I understand they are a small company trying to please a lot of players which sounds like a mine field to me and releasing all these betas doesn't help matters.

 

Take the A10c which is clearly not in beta any more but they are still having to fix things on that.

 

If its cash flow they need then perhaps a better course of action would be a yearly membership fee/subscription to gain access to the online master server a bit like xbox and their member ship just to get online perhaps i am wrong as it may cause some people to leave.

I don't know but i would gladly pay £100 per year for access to the server, i don't like the thought of someone not having enough to live on or enough in their pocket to buy a decent meal.

[Furious]

No offense taken John. I feel that maybe we are digressing from the post subject, my fault entirely.

 

I have also had lots of fun with the huey, and you're right, no-one put a gun to my head to buy it. My comments are a general exasperation with DCS in general TBH. I understand belsimtek are a small outfit, and credit to them, they actually release products wayyyy faster than any other sub-developer for this sim (still waiting...)

 

It just seems to me that beta stages last forever these days. The Huey has been released for a while now. There is generally way too much "one step forwards, two steps back" in this sim. It's damaging the flight community. I'm constantly trying to get people to buy this, but always find myself saying "no,no, this is really good, they just broke this in the last patch, but it'll work again in the next one, which won't be long". Next patch comes along, fixes one thing, but, guess what, I'm back to my old mantra...

 

It seems weird that no-one at belsimtek realised that the fire button for the copilot was broken. Did they not try it? You wonder if they even fly the thing sometimes. I know... they're probably too busy trying to fix things, with too little time. Perhaps the whole flight sim is now a cottage industry...three guys in a shed doing all this. In that case, the results are actually quite impressive...

 

Anyway, moan over!

~S~

[xxJohnxx]

Hi,

 

No offense taken John. I feel that maybe we are digressing from the post subject, my fault entirely.

 

We can share that fault. It normally always needs two people to talk (and I guess that is also true on the internet, altought I do wonder sometimes who is talking to whom on some places...) :smilewink:

 

It just seems to me that beta stages last forever these days. The Huey has been released for a while now. There is generally way too much "one step forwards, two steps back" in this sim. It's damaging the flight community. I'm constantly trying to get people to buy this, but always find myself saying "no,no, this is really good, they just broke this in the last patch, but it'll work again in the next one, which won't be long". Next patch comes along, fixes one thing, but, guess what, I'm back to my old mantra...

 

Yes, that is definatelly true!

That's one of the biggest problems of coding.

Often you are braking stuff while you change something else.

Often stuff is braking while you aren't doing anything.

Often you have to brake stuff to get something else working.

At least that's what I experienced on some late nights, beeing high on black soft drinks and chinesee food...

 

But I would suggest back to topic :)

[skouras]

come on guys give'em a break they are working on these modules

personally i really enjoy both of them and have so much fun

no worries from my side that they will finish them

but it would be a great idea to give us some news every week or so;)

[lennycutler]

The current listing of Huey changes for this update, now only lists fixing the audio guns sounds.