Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

[Eddie]

Be careful with any delivery sleds you find online, remember the altitudes will be in MSL and will allow for the elevation of the target. So if the target the attack was planned for was several thousand feet above MSL, you'd be too high using it in DCS unless your target was at the same elevation.

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

But your sleds use a default height as template, not an altitude so ground level elevation + height as per sled = actual required altitude MSL. At least that's how I understood it..

[Eddie]

Yes, all the sleds in the battle book are setup for a target at 0 ft MSL. So they are essentially in AGL meaning you have to add target elevation "on the fly" to perform the delivery correctly.

 

I'm the 476th we'd generally plan a specific delivery for a known target to give MSL altitudes on the sled valid for that target. The battle book deliveries are for use when you don't know your target in advance, such as On-Call CAS/FAC(A) controlled sorties.

[Supersheep]

IIRC, the area that the mentioned doc from post #78 refers to is 20 to 40 meters (60-120 ft) ASL.. Subtracting mean=90 feet would incur a crudely calculated error of +/- 30 ft. I don't have the ME or the miz handy to check against that, unfortunately.

 

 

Edit: Correcting for target elevation this way assumes that the elevations scale perfectly linear to any ground level... I don't know if that's really the case.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Supersheep
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[JayPee]

Now that we've been taught the theory on DSMS profiles (the sleds), I'd like to know if I can pre-load them into my DSMS a lot more efficiently than by entering them one by one in-pit? I'm thinking of something like having all MK-82 profiles loaded if I'm carrying an actual 82. That would only leave me with turning the profile ON/OFF and altering one or two variables. IMHO much more comfortable than starting from scratch(pad) every time.

 

I know that a data cartridge function is not implemented but perhaps I can mimic it the same way I can 'pre-load' my own CMS profiles by editing the LUA file? I've found a DSMS app but it's not of much use. It's bugged, hangs, and only works per single player MIZ file. I'm looking for a more complete and general way.

[Eddie]

At the moment there isn't. Until we get some form of DTC functionality from ED entering stuffin the pit and/or mission prepare is all we've got.

[WildBillKelsoe]

there isn't much precision left in CCIP to not use it anymore, if it wasn't for these di*ks on the ground scratching their boools for a cheapshot at your engines with IR SAMs. you want proper tutelage, join an online squadron. beats reading the books and enhances camaraderie. the other alternative is to grow a beard, a tummy, sit on the couch helpless reading massive theoretical mumbo jumbo, and then stumble upon simulator giving easy pickings. one advice I'll also give, get Sabre-TLA's training missions. they work hand in hand with SOP's (or non-SOP's so A-10 real jocks and chiefs here won't point a gun at me!) and be on with it. its a sim...

[Supersheep]

Sorry, I only get a third of your post. There are reasons why I can't/didn't join some groups and I'm aware of that tradeoff. This is the best I can do and I try to take up this opportunity.

 

One of the things I don't understand is about CCIP being inaccurate? It most certainly does what I tell it to. If that's good or bad in the first place is a different question.

 

I digress, this is OT. Back to business.

 

 

 

@Jaypee:

Did you have time to train more already? I didn't, and am subsequently not making progress...

[JayPee]

Neither here. Progressing slowly.. I manage to apply the theory completely. However, issue is that this cockpit referencing stuff isn't working for me somehow, IMHO it's too much of a guesstimation based on a situational awereness which can not be generated from sitting behind a 2D screen.

 

I need to find accurate and to the point tools to establish my distance in tenths of miles and bearing to my target in order to roll-out at the proper spot in 3D space.

[Supersheep]

I try to not get too uptight with that. Before a run, I take a mental note of how things look and how I assess my position/movement relative to ideal, and then see how the run turns out. If it's off or otherwise whacky and I notice that multiple times, I have a pattern that I can correct. Simplified example: Rolling too late -> exessive dive. So if I notice that I keep diving exessively, I know (assume) that I roll too late.

 

For similar parameters, I set myself up with a small range (WPs placed in a square) so that I always fly in the same area. My range pattern is far from perfect, but works better than the things I tried before.

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

I have a roughly similar approach but I still find it difficult to guess, measure, and imagine on my screen.

 

Current lack of TIR (free track broke down) is also not beneficial to my spatial orientation.

[JayPee]

Just to be clear on something, when the delivery planning states 45* offset and 1.9 NM base; that means I should keep my target at 45* left or right of my ZSL and start a roll-in when the ground distance to the target is 1.9 NM, so that I have made a 45* turn at roll-out.

 

Right?

[Eddie]

Yep.

[Supersheep]

Not clear: Either this means that one flies towards the target in a constantly steepening turn (to keep the 45 degrees) or I can't follow you here.

[JayPee]

You need to aim to have it 45* when youre 1.9 NM away from the target, not constantly.

 

If you want to do it precisely you would have to fly a straight line parallel to the line leading to the target. Using (co)sinus you can calculate how far off to the left/right youre line should be compared to the line leading directly to the target. Eventually you will intercept the 45* offset line at a distance of 1.9 NM.

 

I'll make a drawing in a minute.

[Supersheep]

I actually made one, so no need for that, thanks. What irritated me was the

that means I should keep my target at 45* left or right

part of the post. With that out of the way, I know what you mean.

[Gisen]

Can someone please clarify about wind adjustments: I have heard conflicting info about whether adjusting for wind in the cdu is need ed for accurate dumb bombing and I can't seem to test it myself.

If it is needed, are there any resources that cover it? ta

[Supersheep]

Thanks for asking. I trained in no wind/really low wind conditions so far. As I wrote somewhere in here, I completely lost track of that thread you refer to. OTOH, there are few people I trust in regards to this topic, so I'll not comment and wait for an answer.

 

 

BTW:

This thread is immensely valuable. I just completed a flight with someone who I pointed here (sorry JayPee...) and he picked up the concepts real fast - clearly more precise than me trying to put it into words.

[Eddie]

The normal (automatic) IFFCC wind correction is more than enough in 90% of situations. In the other 10% (high altitude/high winds) even entering wind data won't lead to magic, and given that DCS does not provide accurate wind data during briefing you won't know what to enter anyway.

 

As long as you employ the principles discussed here, you'll be low enough, fast enough, and steep enough that it won't make much difference anyway.

[JayPee]

Looking for comprehensive dumb bombing guides

 

Eddie, earlier you talked about how visual cockpit cues are used in CCIP. I'm far less educated in this matter as you guys are but in general this just feels limited to me.

 

How do you engage a target you can't see because it's covered and camouflaged? Or because of low light weather conditions? Or at night when a HUD becomes blurred through your NVGs?

 

PS: yeah np Super

[Eddie]

Pretty simple tbh. Exactly the same way, but you use a geographical/manmade feature as your reference.

 

You don't really want to be referencing the "target" at all when running in, because such small things are easy to lose sight of, instead you are looking for more visible features that you can use as aiming references. For example, you could "drop your weapons 100m east of the t-junction".

 

Such things may not sound all that scientific or precise, and they are not, but that's how it all works. Essentially, when employing unguided munitions in a 21st century aircraft you have all the same problems when it comes to locating the target that pilot's had in WWII/Korea/Vietnam etc, you just have better targeting systems than they did.

 

There are other things you can do to help out in some situations as well. Illumination flares dawn/dusk (when it's not dark enough for NVGs), IR Pointers/LASER at night, and white phos rockets or LASER during the day. Of course most of the tactics, techniques, and procedures than can be employed can only be used when flying with other people in MP.

[Supersheep]

Is it usual for aircraft to put down their own smoke as reference or is that usually the ground forces only? Putting the smoke there has exactly the same difficulties that he actual bomb delivery has.

[Crescendo]

Well, it depends what you mean by "putting the smoke there".

 

If you mean physically hitting the target with rockets, then yes, you have similar issues as with bomb delivery. However, if you mean marking the general vicinity of the target, then no, it's not really difficult at all. You just quickly and roughly 'put the thing on the thing' and fire a rocket before maneuvering to set up your actual bombing run.

 

I almost always fly with a single pod of willie-petes just for that purpose. If I see a target or a muzzle flash I quickly roll-in and fire a rocket in the general area. It's a spontaneous action; nothing really fancy or 'on the numbers' about it. Then all I have to do is spot the smoke, which gets my eyes immediately searching in the right area.

 

If you're out of rockets, landmarks serve the same purpose, i.e. "muzzle flash, in a brown field, next to bend in river by a town" etc. You don't even need the rockets for that, but they do make it easier.

 

It works for me anyway.

 

As for "How do you engage a target you can't see", I would say with great difficulty. If you can't see it, how do you know it was there? If you know it's there, you must have seen it, which means you should be able to roughly mark its general area, reacquire it, then bomb it.

 

If you can't see it at all, then you had better hope that you have accurate coordinates or someone on the ground actively marking it, which should enable you to drop a GBU, or at least ripple a whole bunch of bombs via a CCRP delivery.

[Eddie]

Is it usual for aircraft to put down their own smoke as reference or is that usually the ground forces only? Putting the smoke there has exactly the same difficulties that he actual bomb delivery has.

 

It's very, very common. Especially when working with/as a FAC(A).

 

But you don't really try put the smoke 'on' the target anyway. Firstly it's obviously not always that easy to do, but secondly it gives the target advanced warning of the attack (of course that isn't applicable to the AI on DCS).

[JayPee]

So the whole proces of self designating for CCIP delivery at best applies only when the pilot is able to visually acquire the target.

 

Merry Christmas everybody!