Tank50us

Yeah, the taxpayers did, and Mav nearly wrecked his trying to save Cougar! That's certainly news to me... but to go on the post of the guy you were replying to... yeah... we have a good hunch of what would be viable solutions to this mess, but to date, there isn't one beyond "let's hope they can work it out like adults". Failing that, and considering how popular those modules were, ED would either have to make replacements themselves or contract a 3rd party to make them. I doubt they'd let them sit and rot.

I'd gladly fund the creation of a new DCS Module if I won the lottery XD Heck, such a team might have the first versions of the module within a year. That said, in my original statement, I did say IF. And it's also dependent on what happens with the legal teams.

Alternatively, if RB just decides to call it quits, and gives up the Source Code, maybe the devs that actually worked on those projects could band together to from a new 3PS, and then deal with ED directly. Funny thing about this whole mess... is that RB is more like a second publisher then an actual developer. So there'd be no real stopping such a team from forming out of the ashes. The only thing that stops them from fixing the modules... is the lack of source code needed. that's called a "Gentleman's Agreement", and unless you have a notarized document with a signature on it, it's about as good legally as toilet paper.

I think he means if HB were handed the MudHen and told to get it working again it'd delay the implementation of the player-drivern Intruder.

I mean... there is an option... one that's been brought up several times, and now has a whole thread in the wishlist section: Make new versions, and if someone hasn't gotten a refund, they get the new toy for free or significantly reduced cost

and how many Trainers have we gotten since? I could be mistaken, but the Hawk was probably the first... now we have the L39, C101, and the MB339... plus one of the Mirage F1 variants is a two-seat trainer.

knowing Rons ego... don't hold your breath. As I've said on that thread... this could've been settled months ago with the signing of one contract... and it apparently hasn't happened yet.

It would be. But let's not forget that outside of getting the Source Code for the existing modules, or getting RB back to work... there's only two options for ED: Replace them entirely or abandon them... and considering people LIKE those aircraft, it leaves them with just one: Replace them. Also, I think people need to understand that 95% of us will NEVER set foot in these pits outside of airshows or museums. So I think it's safe to say that "Good enough" should be the end goal of any module. Exact 1-1 is fine... but it's ultimately better to get something into our hands soon, and refine as time goes on. Think of it like Elite Dangerous vs Star Citizen. Elite was a functional title after about a year and a half of development, and was released to the public about a year later.... but Star Citizen? Still waiting. In DCS terms... there's the F-15E. RB sat on that thing for about a decade before they released it. And in that time, multiple third party developers cropped up, made something, and released it. Were those modules perfect on day one? No. But they were refined little by little until they got where they are now. Hence my statement about an F-15E replacement could be released to us inside 6 months, as ED has everything they need already to pull it off. It's just a matter of refining it until it's perfect after the fact. Which I personally would be fine with, especially if they come out and say "Hey, if you didn't request a refund for the RB F-15E, you get this for free or at a significant discount".

Well.. If RB isn't coming back to keep their modules working... I'm sure there's a few people who'd be happy to accept a new job...

in legal disputes like this, the money sits in a bank account specifically earmarked for it, and neither side can touch it until the legal issues are fully resolved. So when ED, for example, issues a refund, it's coming out of their pockets, not the escrow account. Now, if the matter is ultimately resolved, and RB comes back to developing the modules... they'll get what they're owed, minus any refunds paid out.

Honestly, with exception to the Mig19, ED has most of the documentation to make a decent 'replacement pack' for those that didn't get refunds, but these aircraft would, by necessity, have to be different versions of what RB made, JUST IN CASE someone in RBs legal department rolls up a newspaper. F-15E can be replaced, like for like, with a different version of the E... I wouldn't go with the EX, as it's too new and there isn't enough documents available yet... but a 1989 or 1990 E model? That'd work. The Mirage 2000C can be replaced by a more recent M2k, maybe the Mirage 2005? Harrier can be replaced by the last USMC version... which has the Hornets radar... which is already in game The Mig19... that's a tough one since getting Russian Documents is notoriously difficult. But there is a team working on the Mig17 right now. The real catch is how much development time would be needed to get each one working. A replacement Strike Eagle could probably be in our hands inside of 6 months with BASIC functionality (A/A weapons, Dumb and Laser-guided Bombs, working flight and damage models), but that's only because they have most of the work done for them with the F-15C (same engines, radar, etc). But a new Harrier or Mirage? We'd need a couple years. Minimum. This all being said... I just hope they can figure something out with RB, either to get them working again, or get the source codes. But until then... pray.

This isn't any different then if Activision contracted another company to do some work on a COD title, and they turned around around and took the engine assets to make their own game or make something for another client. Activision would most likely either sue them into oblivion or withhold all payments from the moment they caught them. This isn't a bourgeois vs proletariat situation... this is a case of one group violating the terms of a contract by doing something they weren't supposed to do. This situation could end tomorrow with the signing of one contract. But that side won't budge... and they're the ones with more to gain... and all they have to do IS SIGN A CONTRACT.

I clearly know more than you. Since you have NOTHING to refute my statement.

Why should ED give Razbam a PENNY if RB violated the contract? We do know this. Not just from EDs statement, but a few people who were vocal about it BEFORE the lid was closed. While we may not know the EXACT wording of the contracts and legal agreements, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what's in them. We know that ED has a specific version of DCS that is meant for military use. We know that RB didn't have access to it beyond what they did for Dassault for the Mirage 2k. Is it really hard to understand that RB violated that agreement to make a military grade sim out of the same DCS we play when they weren't supposed to? ED has stated they had a contract ready for RB to sign, and they'd have had the money coming in again. One E-Sign, and none of this would be happening. And yet it is. And the only reason people are shaking the pompoms for RB is because Ron went public claiming to be the victim. Why is it so hard for people to understand that when someone is in breach of contract, they don't. get. paid. Employers do it all the time with employees. Do something wrong with your contract (IE, what they're paying you to do), ya don't get paid. And realistically, RB isn't really the developer of these modules, they subcontract the work out. Hence why the South Atlantic map is still seeing work done.

sorry the truth and the law are on EDs side. RB is in the wrong here. They violated the contract, and got caught. But instead of just owning up to it, and agreeing to a new contract with ED... they threw a temper tantrum and stopped all work on the modules that people PAID FOR, and then AGAIN violated EDs contract by not handing ED the source code so THEY can continue the work on those modules and keep them working.

I have a sneaking suspicion that this is why RB pushed the Strike Eagle out... they knew they were gonna get busted, tried to get it out and get what they could from it... take the money and take off... only... the contract stopped that from happening. That said... It could be just that even if they agreed to the new policy... Ron might just be enough of a petulant child that he's basically refusing to give it up. It should be an open and shut court case. "You agreed to the new terms, now deliver"... but unless ED hires someone to fast-rope into the dudes house and retrieve that flash drive (and, well, any computer it might be on)... there's few ways for them to get the source code. The only other option would be to put all of the modules in front of teams to basically reverse engineer them, rebuild the code from scratch, and PRAY it works in 3.#

So bub... with the likelihood of the Super Herc coming out late this year, or early next... how's that crow taste?

Yeah, when you're dealing with someone who's got an ego the size of Jupiter, things are NEVER easy.... This should've been an easy thing: "Either give us the code so we can keep this module working, or sign this new contract and get paid and we can continue selling like normal." But no... the head of RB seems to think that he can do whatever he wants... while the people who worked for him go unemployed, and the people who bought his product get stiffed with products that have an uncertain future now. Let's just hope that SOMETHING breaks, and we get to keep flying those modules. I'm holding onto them for that very hope.

They agreed to halt sales of the modules pending resolution of the suit. This was likely so there'd be a concrete number on how much ED has put aside for Razbam, should a resolution be reached where RB CAN be paid. Key thing to remember here... from what we know... RB breached the contract, and refused to negotiate further... and then dropped the bombshell announcement that made this all public. Since then, it's been a quagmire. Personally... I have my views on what should happen: 1. The relationship goes back to the way it was, and the modules get support from RB again. 2. RB backs out, hands over the source code to ED, who then doles them out to teams who can handle further development (the F1 gets get the M2K, Mag gets the Harrier, HB get the Strike Eagle, etc) 3. RB backs out, but ED retains the source codes to maintain the modules for the short term, and reopens sale of said modules. They'll work, but won't receive major updates until ED can bring in people who can add features.

First, something like this would be an option, just like the IFLOLS for the SCM. If you don't want it, take a ten-twenty second jaunt through the settings, and turn it off. Some people have a hard time seeing the lights at all. Sure, you can probably see them just fine in VR, or with a high enough resolution screen and GPU... but not everyone has that... actually... for that matter... I'd be willing to bet money that at least 40% or more of the community is running the game with a computer that can run it at OK settings, and using lower-end controls. If my estimate is correct, then this option would likely help a fairly significant portion of the community, which in turn leads to better investment into DCS, which means more money spent on modules, etc. A small bit of development time to make AAR a little easier... and ED will reap the rewards. I can only see this as an absolute win.

yeah, it's a shame how so many people demand the ability to see the welds and bolts on an M1 Abrams or T-72 when the majority of us will be squinting at it through an MFD wired to a T-Pod... or pulling out of a dive a couple thousand feet above it as a 2,000lb gift pile-drives into the ground next to it. I can understand it for the helo pilots, after all... they get MUCH closer to the unit in question... but I'd still argue that ground units need to be optimized for performance not visual fidelity. After all, if you're an Apache pilot recreating the 1991 Gulf War, the dozens of T-72s, T-55s, and BMPs that you and your 15 wingmen are engaging... the mission NEEDS to run smoothly... even as turrets head to the moon.

honestly, the way the sim is, we really can't see it like 99% of the time. On the RWR it still shows up as "E2", and the only time we actually get a good look at one is if it's on the deck or we're flying in close formation. That being said, having more AWACS aircraft wouldn't be a bad thing, like the E-1 Tracer, KA-31, or that modified Sea King with a radar.

We can always RP them as these guys in that instance....

I mean... they could be weather radars too.

Bonus points if we can have it 'play' certain radars so that it appears on RWR as the desired emitter.