MaverickF22

Yeah..., i laughed it too when i saw it, knowing where i did wrong, although i'm not that much, as some might think! Good day to you bud!

I agree with you that it's good to point out what is possibly wrong, when you see something that won't behave as it should, especially when things are fresh and can be much early repaired, without letting them rust up..., but the way i entered, throwing hard argues about what seemed to be an AI, just because i was too sure of what i was saying, proved to be a bad aspect for myself and i recognize that! Yet first of all i want things to get better and have this simulator (DCS and it's partners) at a much higher level than expected..., and this doesn't have anything now to do with money, because we can all buy a product if we like it/want it..., but it has to do with the image of what could be the best simulation experience of nowadays, leaving aside other WW1 and 2 simulators that are now emerging..., simulators which i'm also buying (or products), to see how they show up (especially in terms of aerodynamics and flight dynamics simulation, i'm personally less interested in damage modelling, even if i like it too and they are better at this). Meanwhile, i'm only looking forward to see DCS grow higher and give us the option to enter the cockpit of modern fighter aircrafts and helicopters, replicating accurate (as much as possible) avionics and weapon systems employments, besides an accurate flight model of the aircrafts (which is essential for a simulator in the first place). Although DCS might not have any other competitor at it's level (only in terms of modern jets and helicopters) i'd dare to say that i will continue to trust them in these areas..., at least for what they have achieved so far! A good day to everyone!:thumbup:

I see..., i'll check the Huey as well when i'll have the time! Thanks sharing the time on everything you've said! Good day!

I've also wanted to change the name of the thread myself, but i personally can't change it i see! If possible..., i'd like to ask an admin who has the possibility, to change the current's thread title to: "MI-8's Flight Dynamics Overview" or something similar which won't sound as bad as i've initially named it! Thank you!

Thanks for sharing some of my thoughts about the Huey and i'm also certain that fixes will take place to bring these products to a higher level of realism..., at least to the onel we all shared with KA-50 KAMOV (what a lovely beast)! That's the first reason why i'm risking so much with tough argues some times and i know it doesn't worth it...! After all, i was the one to confuse (even if i thought for a second that it might be a mistake) that MI-8 at second 30 within that promo, to be a player instead of an AI..., and now i took my answer the hard way..., but this is life!:joystick::lol: I'm also buying the MI-8 these days and i'm looking forward to see it's results!;) - Salutarile mele Zaleu, ma bucur mult sa te vad;)! Mi-e tare dor de zborul in IL-2, cand am jucat alaturi de tine (bine, de tabara adversa:lol:...) acum cativa ani..., a fost frumos! Acum sunt innebunit dupa DCS, dar totusi sper sa ne vedem vre-odata pe un server, sa facem o misiune, poate chiar pe al meu! - Have a nice day everyone, Cheers from Romania!

I'm loving the MI-8 HIP as well, and i'm not seeking anyone's attention..., but i SEEK what i find to be wrong and tell about it..., even if i might make some mistakes within the first argues! Good day!

People, why are you running for the worse when you can have the best so far? Why aren't you wisely selecting what's best, if this is a rare occasion to do so? Select the damn SU-35BM beast and stop throwing all the energy on other russian fighters which are much less capable, like MIG-29 and Su-27's! Here are some key known facts about the SU-35, which no other russian aircraft is currently capable of, except for the PAK-FA (only for avionics and stealth, otherwise less manoeuvrable): 1. More manoeuvrable than any previous Su-27 versions and also incorporates TV nozzles. 2. Much better cockpit visibility than Su-27 and better instrumentation. 3. Latest avionics which are far greater than those from the Su-27's and a with much higher radar detection range. 4. An increased arsenal for both air to ground and air to air weapons than Su-27! Why are you people always jumping so quick without thinking too much, before you take a decision? Now who knows how much time would we need, in order to see the Su-35 available once more...!

Hello Shagrat and thank you for the taking the time to answer about the ground effect problem...! I know exactly what you are saying, but the thing is that the ground effect just seemed (for what i saw in that promo at around 1:18 ) a bit exaggerated for the accumulated descending momentum of the MI-8! Of course that i don't exactly know how much weight did it had in the video and i also know that for almost all the aircrafts (airplanes, helicopters) the ground effect would start to be noticed/felt at around 1/3 of the wingspan (~1/3 from the rotor's diameter for helicopters)! So there should be a similarity for the height from where the ground effect occurs, but there is a significant difference between a lighter and a heavier aircraft (plane or helo) in terms of the deceleration felt by the lighter one and the heavier one (which should have a lower deceleration value), if they would both have the same descend rate, as they close to the ground! Again..., take the example of the KA-50, where there is a ground effect indeed, but it's way reduced than what we see for the Huey and apparently the MI-8, and the weight of a loaded KA-50 and that of a loaded MI-8 are closer than between MI-8 and Huey, that's what i'm trying to point out! I'll buy the MI-8 then and i'll come back to regard/disregard my argues about it! Have a good day!

You are right..., i was ridiculous and too quick to answer what i saw, but..., the thing with the ground effect still gives me some debate..., i'll come with a video later regarding the Huey's behaviour which seems very similar to the MI-8's one! Now i hope i won't be making a mistake this time too..., but if i do, i'll come back and answer it! Good day to all of you!;)

Thank you for the reply first of all! I've also seen that video as well, and indeed the video that i've referred to shown an AI taking off at 0:30 (i have less excuses for that)..., yet i still haven't seen a video where the MI-8 and also the Huey are descending vertically at a constant rate (below the occurring of a vortex ring state) and without modifying the collective control, will descend all the way until touching or not touching the ground (depends on the strength of the ground effect). That is what i'm trying to refer to when i mean that the ground effect seems just too strong (comparing to the KA-50 for example), of course taking into account the exact mass of the helicopter at that moment (which reflects into inertia). I apologize for my probably exaggerated remarks, but i honestly didn't know the truth as i haven't tested the product yet...! I wish you all a good day, and sorry for being impolite!

About the GAU-8, i personally haven't seen any deficiencies, except for the fact that in wind conditions, the LASTE screws the wind correction real badly for the gun also..., sending all bullets in another direction than where the pipper is, but that's the only problem so far..., otherwise i was able to easily kill many T-90 tanks with the GAU-8 with A-10C, by shooting the T-90's form around 0.5nm away with around 100 bullets for each..., and i was definitely sending a 100%healthy T-90 on fire just to that! The GAU-8 seems fine and everything else..., except for the CCRP, LASTE and MK-82 AIR bombs!;) Good day!

Hi, I'm starting this thread in order to discuss some of the problems which already involved the Huey, and which are still unfixed..., problems which seem to translate to MI-8 as well! I didn't even need to buy the product to realize, that not even in terms of flight dynamics, it doesn't worth it...! 1. After just trying to watch a promo of the MI-8..., at second 0:30 of the video, i saw something that didn't seem quite realistic to me and many other pilots, who saw it! The helicopter jumped into the air on a constant slope, without inertia, like if a small dynamite blew underneath it! 2. When the MI-8 was constantly descending towards the ground..., it "hit" the same amount of ground effect at 1:18, that the Huey is also encountering in the current beta! Why is the inertia so low and why is that ground effect persisting to be so strong for the MI-8, in the same manner that goes with Huey? The ground effect seems like a copy-paste from huey to MI-8! I haven't seen the DCS's KA-50 product (since BS1 until now) look so bad in terms of inertia and ground effect as i see the Belsimtek's products to be doing! From my opinion, these aren't yet at DCS standards and need some attention! Here's the unpromising promo:

MaverickF22lse happens also, after the client switches to another plane and the previous one turns to AI (playing on a server) and it is that the now AI plane still holds some information from the player who initially selected it, because if someone shoots down that AI plane, the server will tell that the player (who selected it) was shot down, or if that player leaves the game..., then also the AI plane disappears instantly (tested today)! So if the AI planes become depended on their initiators..., they could also make some score for their fathers(players)!:lol:

Well, that's because ED has to fix both LASTE and CCRP in order to have the dumb bombs where they normally should be (and also that wild traveling MK-82AIR:P)! If you want to fly the A-10C and be able to hit something and do some score..., don't load dumb (iron) bombs on your plane if you plan to drop them with CCRP mode, unless you want to use CCIP, in a no wind condition, or don't load iron bombs at all, if there is wind! Just stick to LGB's and Mavericks to do the job for now...! So let's all wait patiently until ED will decide to take a look at these functions that aren't working correctly and then we should have the results, otherwise the A-10A's CCRP is more reliable (although it has it's problem too..., it always sends your bombs (every model) into the ground, like 40...50 feet before reaching the target) and always delivers the bombs with the same error (before the target) even when you climb or dive while releasing...!

And i'm still looking for that answer from Dynamo...! I want to see his track in which he respects exactly what he has told within those pictures, that he posted on the first page of this thread, using 2 altitude layers at least, as he said, and drop 1 or 2 MK-82 bombs on a 15m/s (that's 29 knots, because LASTE asks for wind speed in knots and not m/s) wind..., use the CCRP method for release, and LASTE as mentioned, for wind correction! Until he doesn't provide us a track with what he has told..., it was a waste of time for him in a try to prove what can't be done giving the actual conditions of a probably bugged CCRP and LASTE functions. I mean..., i'd love to see that it works, and that i was wrong..., but from my point of view, this is a bug and needs to be fixed! I'm sorry if i have insulted anyone or gave the impression of a high level arrogance..., but i really want DCS to get better, because even less known simulators or none-licensed(BMS) ones are able to simulate a CCRP correctly!

Hi Mav-x, Yes, i've found that if you write only one layer of altitude to correct the wind with LASTE, it will actually correct for the wind very accurate and deliver your bomb pinpoint where you want it to go (regardless of CCRP's bugs, for CCIP work perfect), but ONLY if the wind doesn't change with altitudes..., maybe i forgot to mention that in the video or the earlier posts..., that if you write down in LASTE only one layer of altitude (because in real life, you should normally add at least 2 layers between which you will release the iron bombs, so that the computer will know how the trajectory evolves, as the wind will vary with altitude), you have to make sure that the wind has the same intensity and direction between the altitude from where you want to release the bomb (the only altitude to write down in LASTE) and the ground..., only then the LASTE will accurately correct for the wind, so it does work the way i showed in the video and also as the track files reveal, but it's completely unrealistic to fly a mission where the wind needs to have the same direction and intensity throughout all available altitudes in mission editor (at 0 meters, at 2000 and 8000m) and so you can never use dynamic weather if you want to use the LASTE correctly..., so..., either don't use wind on your missions or apply the above conditions when you want to use iron bombs! So when ED has tried to model the CCRP's calculations in various situations (diving/climbing) and also the LASTE's wind correction function..., they made them calculate and correct something..., but not what it should! I just hope, and all of us do..., that they will try to investigate these problems and fix them, before going to something else, otherwise we would feel like flying a handicapped attack aircraft, reliable only on guided munitions and CBU's, which will stay like that forever..., and that's not we want from DCS! Good day!

Well..., the procedure is what i've shown in the video that i've made in order to correct these bugs or problems, whatever they are...! It's just a way to get around these not understandable problems and bugs of both CCRP's employment for A-10C in DCS (which shouldn't differ from the A-10A, where the CCRP works better in terms that it calculates the same way no matter if you climb or dive when releasing, but always hits before reaching the targeted position, with all bomb types, so the CCRP on A-10A also has problems, but it's weird why it differs from A-10C) where you have to position the TGP cue somewhere behind or after the desired point of impact, in order to have the bomb drop where you want...! Now we didn't pay 40$ for the A-10C to jiggle with the TGP back and forth in order to correct for the bad CCRP's behaviour:P and not be able to do a dive TOSS bombing or LOFT bombing using CCRP, because it would throw the bomb far away! As well as the LASTE for correcting the wind's effect on the bomb, by not writing down more than one altitude layer (the altitude from where you desire to release the bomb), in order for it to work properly! Now i'm no genius..., but indeed i'm a maniac simulator player, with an eye for every bug and thing which doesn't work the way it should or at least, which seems not to...! And if i wouldn't love and appreciate what the guys at DCS and ED have done already..., then i wouldn't even bother to tell what is going wrong and what should be corrected..., cause it's good to know what isn't right from an early stage and not string too far with uncorrected stuff/bugs! Have a good day, Maverick!

Thank God that at least someone here has seen and understood one of the problems that nobody wants to talk about or doesn't feel able to answer...! Cheers to you too, Mav...!:thumbup: Good day!

Hi there PhoenixBvo...! I suppose you didn't quite read or understand all that i was saying about various problems that i have found! Thank you for the link there but..., i don't know how to say..., it didn't resolve nor answer my questions in any form..., as these problems that were found have nothing to do with how to use real life procedures for approaching a target or how to employ the CCIP (which works perfectly though), because there are some bugs that have to be taken care of, or at least re-verified by an ED tester, or things don't look too good! In those links i couldn't find anything (i hope i didn't miss anything) about CCRP employment and how to properly use it, not just in wind conditions (which we'll see after, how it turns LASTE to work bad, if i'm right...), and why does the MK-82 always hit after/beyond the point where the TGP is set on and why does the MK-84 does just the opposite, by falling way before reaching the target or before the spot where the TGP is set! Not to talk about the MK-82 air drag bomb's bug, which can be seen from miles away as it always goes in different directions (sometimes even opposite from the initial one on which it was launched) with each release. How are you going to answer about the LOFT and TOSS bombing employments which are often used as real life techniques in order to deliver your iron bombs on target (with very little calculation error if the pilot is perfectly lined up) using CCRP? You just can't..., and there's no argue about it, because you can't use these bombing methods in DCS with the A-10C, as long as this problem isn't solved! Also another bug which i've found during these tests for which i've provided tracks for better investigation, is that the TGP's HUD cue..., sometimes goes wild in the top left corner of the HUD and reads (angle and distance) incorrect data, while the pod stays locked in the same position...! So for whatever reason, the TGP's cue on the HUD reads something else than what it is! OK..., here are the tracks, which i hope..., will finally answer both me and you guys, what is wrong and what isn't done right (if is there anything), because these problems either get unseen by some of us or may not care, or simply don't realize that something isn't right..., but there definitely has to be done something about it..., cause we're going nowhere this way! The first 3 tracks, will show you what's wrong with the CCRP with it's lack of ability to calculate EXACTLY when the moment of release should take place for each particular bomb (MK-82, MK-84, CBU's, whatever...), depending on the true aircraft's speed (because that is essential), on the angle of dive or climb and on air density which varies with altitude (except for the wind's effect)..., these whole parameters are normally calculated by the onboard computer (or the fire control computer) to virtually deliver your bomb EXACTLY (regardless of the realistic behaviour where each bomb's flight path is slightly different than the other..., thing that you will see either in the provided video or in the 4th track)! The CCIP does calculate perfect and as it should..., yet the CCRP is far from doing so..., why is this happening when there should be no calculating differences between these 2 modes, except for the way it helps you to deliver munitions? A-10's CCRP and LASTE have bugs which no one has noticed!.trk A-10's CCRP bad release with dive angle and releases different bombs with different errors!.trk LASTE bugs.trk Now the MK-82 air drag which has this very annoying behaviour by changing it's course immediately after release and not following a realistic path...: MK-82 Air drag bomb has unsolved trajectory bugs, please consult!.trk Here's a video that i've also provided, which passes through all of these issues, thus making it easier than consulting the track files individually..., for who doesn't want to waste time and can understand what's wrong!: So now you will have my answer here, PhoenixBvo, and i hope that you'll read and view it..., "And I mean all of it. It should answer your question"! And here's a video of how would these air drag bombs actually fall in a group and follow the same path..., not fly like popcorn all over the place...!: Have a good day...!

As a conclusion..., the only aircraft which can't be correctly recorded in the track file and which cannot show exactly what happened and when, no matter if you've just entered a single player mission and spawned only once (didn't press refly again) or on servers and did the same..., is the Belsimtek's DCS Huey! For all other aircrafts (A-10's, FC3's aircrafts, Su-25T, KA-50, P-51) and Combined Arms..., the recorder will track exactly, with 0% errors, of everything that you did..., ONLY your first flight of a single player mission or from a server! The rest of the flights which you have started afterwards will be recorded with an alarmingly increasing error in that the aircraft might blow up in 2..3 seconds after it was re-spawned..., as you watch the track. So this recording feature works only partially! Once again..., let's hope that ED will do the job and correct all of these bugs/problems and don't forget about them, because we like to support a good quality simulator..., not any sort of computer game who nobody cares of...! A good day to everyone!:thumbup:

That's correct..., but as people can see that the ARM missiles head directly for the middle of the ship, and not the radiation source..., they use this in their favor to destroy the ship, although it isn't realistic as we know! As for what you've said about ARM's not being able to target AAA units..., why? I've been targeting and firing KH-25MPU's and 58's at shilka's M163 vulcans, which locked me up just enough for my ELINT pod to get a signal to lock for..., and the missiles hit these AAA's with no problems, so i don't get the comparison to Molynia in this case..., maybe i missed something! Have a good day!

Perfectly correct mate..., i saw the same problem but shhishh..., i just forgot to tell about that one too:P..., some many problems are still to debate! In FC2 that i've played for a while (where i did some good old school MTF ship strikes), it took me 2 maverick missiles to shoot (from an A-10 of course) and sink a Rezky combat ship or whatever it was..., just 2 maverick D version..., but now i have to shoot more than 1000, what a heck? I still don't get the idea why did they "reinforce" all these ships so much! In reality..., i bet that only one missile of these types is enough to do such a damage to sink the whole ship in no time, or if we take the AGM-65D as an example, you won't need more than 4..5 missiles which to shoot evenly along the water line of an aircraft carrier in order to fully sink it..., or simply 1 or maximum 2 maverick missiles against any other combat ship seen in the simulator at this moment! The KH-25, 31 or 58 would do a lot more explosive damage than a maverick missile, so it should normally bring down a ship, much better than that! So i don't know why did they make these ships so strong..., but let's hope they'll give us an answer! Have a good day!

Hi there Dynamo, Excuse me if i ask, but could you please take the time and post a track file regarding the exact way that you did or something similar in order to have dumb bombs correctly driven on the target using the CCRP mode, when having wind conditions? Take the same example that you've been using with the 15m/s constant wind, and drop your MK-84's or 82's from an altitude of at least 6000 feet (as you used in your post) and please show me and everyone else around here..., how to correctly use the LASTE function in order to make the proper wind corrections. Thanks in advance Dynamo..., a lot of us depend on your track. Have a good day!:thumbup:

And at what speed are you going to try a cobra..., to foul a doppler radar? From what i believe, if you're slow enough to do the cobra in safe conditions, there's no doppler radar to foul! If you're fast enough, and of course, flying perpendicular (beam position) to the doppler radar's wave and also at an optimum range from the radar, in order to make it lagg/lose the signal for only a few seconds:P (so you ain't going to win much, except yes..., if there's already a missile in the air flying in SARH mode (SARH also applies to active radar homing missiles, until they are close enough to turn on their own radar and become active), thus you can brake it's lock for a moment and defeat it), you will definitely have to be at a higher true airspeed and indicated airspeed, than the maximum allowed for cobra (either the pilot will die from high G or the plane will be torn apart)! I might be wrong about this..., yet there might also be a bit of truth. Cheers, good day!

Damn..., these whole guy are right when they're talking about the issue with the ARM missiles blowing up ahead shortly after launch..., but i've tested it today and it seems it only happens to clients, and as i was playing as server, these problems wouldn't happen to me at all (except for that Molynia ship, which is something else) and i was able to fire and forget the missiles, from any range or altitude, with no problems. This problem affects more other servers though. So it was only when my team mate and other players noted me that there's something wrong with their missiles, then i watched them firing all their ARM missiles from different altitudes, ranges, whatever..., and they were all blowing up in front of them! I'm always checking for the latest patches and updates before starting my server, so this is not the issue and so do the clients are updated...! There really is a problem between the client and the server he joins! Do I have to remake/rebuild all my missions that i've created in the earlier patches (created in 1.2.1) and which i've been modifying and re-saved up until the last updates (now 1.2.5), in order to clear this issue for people who want do do a SEAD, or is this happening from other reasons? Thanks! Have a good day!