bongodriver

The quick and easy solution is to give us 109 trim and flap axis control just like the P-51, we will then find out just how much of an exploit it really is, personally I think it's just paranoia, are people exploiting it in the P-51? if so shouldn't there be a call to restrict the P-51 in the same way?

You are missing that on a HOTAS system the flap and trim can be mapped to buttons on the throttle anyway, so you can still trim/deploy flap and use the throttle at the same time, I know I can hold 2 buttons on my HOTAS throttle simultaneously and still use the throttle, This perception of 'automatic' you have is redundant, we can achieve the same thing just by holding a button.

if the FSX/P3D/X-Plane crowd could be drawn in to DCS then selling Tiger Moths would be easy.

Aww shucks!!:wub:

Actually the Hawk does have a combat role, the hardpoints are designed to carry weapons which includes sidewinder missiles, it would be quite a capable light strike aircraft. Trainers are a fine idea, this sim should be enjoyed for flying as much as combat. They even experimented with putting bombs on Tiger Moths and the combat version of the T-6 is called a Mosquito

Tiger Moths and their pilots are awesome :D

There's nothing to 'get' in that statement, it makes no sense to me, you think dogfighting is just turning round and round in level turns? I just explained in an earlier post how allowing what I ask is not going to make life easy for it.....get it?

But in the 109 if it was allowed to use our 90-270 pots it would actually be closer to real life because much more care would need to be taken to get the trim right, a small movement on our pots means a big one in game and that would mean its a bit more fiddly and that could suitably occupy at least one of our hands enough to satisfy those that think it's a cheat.

That is not how you trim aircraft, you seem to have even understood that yourself, if you start manoeuvring the aircraft around while trimming then what is the point of trimming? a 109 pilot could interrupt his trimming at any time he wished if he felt the need to reach for another cockpit function, so it would just take a little longer, so why not make the trim move slightly slower than in real life? seriously, this notion that 109's will gain significant advantage by this is just daft.

How are you not getting what is being asked for? I just want to use the trim with a rotary control, just like the real thing, I don't care how long it takes to make the turns, it's not the issue, they can make it take 1000 years for all I care, Please someone tell me what the mysterious 'advantage' is to allow this to happen. You think a 109 pilot has to let go of the joystick to operate trim?

I don't know, maybe, but that's not what I want it to be anyway, I just want the 109 trim wheel to work like the p-51 trim wheel with a realistic rate of operation.

A problem that doesn't exist, it certainly doesn't exist for the P-51, it's quite baffling really. The way I see things is not quite what you think, I just think something as common to aircraft such as a trim should work in a logical fashion through our hardware, I'm all for compromise here and there with much of the controls and clickable pits go along way to making life make sense again for me, particularly as I now fly pretty much exclusively in VR I'd like to set up my controls in a fashion that suits me.

In this case no it's not subjective at all, the real 109 trim is a wheel, it cannot be used with our physical hardware in the same manner, it's as simple as that, it is not realistic, of course everything happening on our computer monitors is in true DCS fashion very accurate and realistic but the implementation of how we interface in this case is not.

first things first is still a subjective view, IMO adding weapons is secondary to realism of flight and control features.

Umm... ok :thumbup: Hopefully someone will look in to putting it right and we can all enjoy the sim the way we like it.

The only problem is it's not a bug, just a bad design decision. Theres already a thread in the bug section from late 2014 http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=135556

Surely it already exists in code as it's exactly what the P-51 does.

this works with the DCS 109? how?

most controllers don't have rotary pots like that, but what if I was a pit builder and made one? it couldn't be exploited if the speed of rotation in game is limited to a realistic rate (just as the P-51's is), I just don't see where the problem is in that, and for that matter what exactly is the advantage of having instantaneous trim or flaps, it's more likely to cause damage than give an advantage.

At no point do we see the persons arm/elbow needing to go outside the cockpit to operate the wheel, the canopy is irrelevant, so is being on the ground irrelevant, the aircraft does not change shape or anything once airborne and trim wheels do not stiffen with aerodynamic loads like controls do. What happens in DCS? is just plain weird, you can assign the trim (and flap) wheels to an axis on the controller but they function as if operated by a switch (what is the point of that?) what this means is that when you turn the assigned rotary axis on your controller the wheel begins to move in the corresponding direction but it will not stop turning until you return your axis input to the centre (with 20 years of real world flying and using rotary trim wheels I can tell you this is a difficult trick get accustomed to) so you end up having to assign it to buttons instead, which flies in the face of ultra realistic/historical simulation and wastes buttons on your HOTAS that could better serve the myriad of other functions that could be usefull, all you have to do is allow the functions to work exactly the same as the P-51 trims with a corresponding and humanly realistic speed of rotation and bob's your uncle.

it's something else, the P-51 trim wheel does not move to full range in one single movement, just like any trim wheel it is a multi turn, the size difference between the two has no relevance, even your linked video shows operation of the big wheel is completely unrestricted and easy to do.

this thread covers the shadow issue I have seen. http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?p=2515839#post2515839

The 109 trim wheel is just a trim wheel exactly like the p-51's, they both take x amount of time to manually crank through their range, the 109 wheel should work exactly the same way the P-51 wheel does, currently trying to use the weird trim on the 109 in the oculus it is massively distracting as you can often find yourself with a trim wheel constantly turning one way or the other if you don't have the axis re-centered and you just cant get precise trim.

There's nothing immature about my description of it.

I believe it is still beta and completely agree with you on the current trim, it is simply ridiculous as currently implemented, a time delayed rotation allowing us to use a rotary pot as it is meant to is the most sensible answer.