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dlder

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Posts posted by dlder

    Is there any immersive way to interact with the cockpit?

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    On 9/13/2023 at 3:41 PM, Baldrick33 said:

    have to hold the mouse button and turn the wheel

    for instance in the P-51, the Flight Indicator Knob (seldom used, but I just came across it, so I pointed it out)

    Yeah, I'm just now beginning to include J2K features into my layout. Very cool program.

    VAICOM: yeah, haven't used that yet too, mainly because - as you said - voice detection isn't all that great (that's probably more on Windows, because Voice Attack just uses that engine).

     

    • Like 1

    Stupid question on how to launch MT (from command line)

    in DCS 2.9

    Posted

    I know, it's so weird... and Steam really makes this even more complicated, because it's not a 100% clear what happens, when one starts whichever exe from the command line, when compared with the settings in the Steam launch option for DCS.

    But seeing as the "force vr" command line parameters work "behind Steam", letting you play DCS in VR, even when not set so in the Steam launch options, it would most probably the best if a "launch in MT" cmd parameter exists.

    Is there any immersive way to interact with the cockpit?

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    16 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

    Push=recentre mouse **

    I'm sorry, but I can't seem to find that function in DCS... what's it called? Where can I find that? (search in general and ui).

    Also, what settings do you use for the mouse-wheel-keystrokes in JoyToKey?
    I'm currently using Auto Repeat: 2 times per second.
    But it seems not enough for some dials like altimeter... I'm gonna try 10 times next (ever 100ms)

    Stupid question on how to launch MT (from command line)

    in DCS 2.9

    Posted · Edited by BIGNEWY
    1.1

    If it really is "just" a Steam issue, then I guess we're... for lack of a better word:

    Then the viable thing to do - if you play 2D and VR like I do:

    • VR: set MT as default executable in Steam and add the VR launch options + launch the game via Steam
    • 2D: launch the game via commandline, forgoing the Steam option, but you'll be stuck with singlethread

    @BIGNEWY I guess there is one option ED could make: a startup switch like for VR -> Steam seems to "respect" those

    • Like 1

    Is there any immersive way to interact with the cockpit?

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Baldrick33 said:

    Forward=right mouse
    Aft=left mouse
    Right=mouse wheel up *
    Left=mouse wheel down *
    Push=recentre mouse **

    * I actually use Joy2Key to map these to keystrokes which I then map to to mouse wheel in UI layer. This allows the button to repeat, handy for "turning" knobs by holding it in.

    ** I also use Joy2Key to perform the mouse centring function

    nice; I also use Joy2Key^^
    So, one can add keyboard buttons in DCS to perform the mouse wheel function? Didn't know that...

     

    Is there any immersive way to interact with the cockpit?

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    8 hours ago, Qcumber said:

    I had a brainwave after reading this thread and realised I have an old Wacom Bamboo tablet. I set it up and did a quick test this morning. It works great. I can keep it just next to the throttle and easily use my left hand to adjust the head cursor for easy access to the side panels. Also a single tap counts as a click and you can then adjust the roller settings by sliding your finger up and down. I need to do more testing but it could be the way forward for me.  

    That sounds awesome, nice work!

     

    2 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

    I ended up with a hybrid solution. Physical buttons, switches and rotaries mapped to dedicated controls and some mapped to mouse functions for controls that aren't directly mapped, so I look at the virtual control and use the closest mouse control to the virtual one - be it a button switch or rotary - in the vicinity (e.g. left, centre or right).

    Generally I use dedicated controls for things I need to access whilst not looking directly at the control or stuff that is hard to look at

    That is slick, I gotta say.

    I'm not quite sure how I'd change my Hotas layout to accommodate for the 2 mouse buttons + wheel, but I'm gonna try that ASAP.

     

    1 hour ago, Hempstead said:

    Directly using the virtual fingers to press/flip/rotate is just difficult.

    Yep, that's what I meant 🙂

     

    I've just fooled around with the DFR which released on the Crystal today... this is a bit OT, but damn, that works great! Highest setting (like the ones I use for 2D) with my 4090 on Marianas I got ~30fps. With Dynamic Fov. Rendering I now have ~42. And with my default VR settings I get about 55-60 fps.

    Stupid question on how to launch MT (from command line)

    in DCS 2.9

    Posted · Edited by dlder

    1 hour ago, speed-of-heat said:

    try this:

    Yeah, that's what I've always been using. But somehow Steam is deciding to launch the normal exe instead

     

    I've now tried to set DCS to always launch in "MT Preview". So launching it through Steam always opens the MT exe. BUT doing it like this I would need to add/remove the VR-launch options every time I want to fly in either 2D or VR...

    And with no Steam Launch Options, I've tried the same as before (directly starting the mt exe) and I've tried it by launching it via Steam CMD:

    D:\Games\GamePortals\Steam\steam.exe -applaunch 223750 --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR

    But for whatever reason, this also starts the "normal" DCS exe...

     

    So, to recap:

    MT is only launching when launched directly via Steam.

    NOT when launching via command line (either via "bin-mt\dcs.exe" nor via "steam.exe -applaunch)

    Stupid question on how to launch MT (from command line)

    in DCS 2.9

    Posted · Edited by dlder

    So... I fooled myself in thinking that I was running DCS in MT since it came to Stable. But... I wasn't.

    The problem is: I launch DCS via Batch - with which I launch a number of apps beforehand, like Afterburner, XrNecksafer, VKB-Tools, OKB, ... - and then I launch the exe via "steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin-mt\dcs.exe"

    BUT: when I go into the task manager I can see that the normal exe from "DCSWorld\bin" is running.

    Only after starting it through Steam and clicking MT Preview in the pop window, the multi-threading exe is started. And now I know that in the lower right corner of the game it actually states "multithread preview".

    So: is there any command line option (like for VR: "steamapps\common\DCSWorld\bin-mt\DCS.exe --force_enable_VR --force_OpenXR") that I can use to force the MT exe to be launched?

    Thanks!

    • Like 1

    Is there any immersive way to interact with the cockpit?

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    On 9/9/2023 at 1:21 PM, A.F. said:

    I also use a trackball with my left hand. With a little practice it works very well.

    Yeah, maybe I just have to try it; would need a place for my mouse first though.

    On 9/9/2023 at 6:15 PM, Hempstead said:

    controllers are just as precise as a mouse

    Yes, when used with the "pointer" right? With imprecise I didn't mean the tracking of the controllers themself, but the manipulating of switches "directly", without the pointer like with a mouse. Does that work well with you?

    Concerning PointCtrl: I'll keep it in mind 🙂 (but I'm currently waiting for my leap motion, so wanna try that first)

    On 9/9/2023 at 6:54 PM, Baldrick33 said:

    they are not even connected.

    Yeah, mine too^^

    On 9/9/2023 at 8:20 PM, Qcumber said:

    xr/vrnecksafer helps with this. 

    This is probably the most useful addon for VR... holy moly, it's literally a pain in the neck to fly without^^

     

    So... I can just look at the controls to then press a button and activate them? Hm... that's what I'm gonna try next. Sounds not too bad (but a bit imprecise? I mean, you'd need to keep your head perfectly still while fixing on a 5x5mm button^^)

     

    22 hours ago, Baldrick33 said:

    The reason I don't like VR controllers or buttons on fingers is for me it feels very odd to be waving a controller or my hand around and pressing a button in mid air.

    I find using either a stick hat or a switch on a button box just feels more immersive.

    For instance adjusting the altimeter or gunsight by looking at the dial and having the mouse wheel mapped to a rotary switch in front of me works well. Of course if you have enough controls you can map the altimeter to a dedicated rotary but it rather depends how many planes you fly to get it in roughly the right place. The mouse option works well if you want a more generic solution.

    You can map mouse buttons and wheel functions to multiple physical buttons and switches to cover various parts of the aircraft consoles, e.g left, centre, right or more.

    It is oddly more satisfying (for me at least!) flicking a physical switch to turn say the battery on (even if it is just a mouse click mapped to it) then pressing a button on a controller. For aircraft which allow right click for on, left for off then the switch matches the animation perfectly.

    I even have all 20 buttons on Thrustmaster MFDs mapped as left mouse clicks. I just look at the virtual MFD button and press an MFD button in roughly the right place, no need for fumbling around counting buttons.

    It works for me but I am happy looking at the controls and find I can do this precisely. For everything I need to be operating whilst looking elsewhere during combat I have it mapped to physical buttons & switches.

    So, if I understand you correctly: you have physical buttons (like the MFDs) and (more or less) all bound to left mouse click, so you don't really have to find exactly the correct button  with your fingers, while looking at it in VR?

    That's... not a bad idea. So you have like one rotary (probably bound as a mouse wheel?) and you look at the correct control in VR and manipulate basically any virtual rotary you want with one physical?

    That's genius! Really does sound doable!

     

    Is there any immersive way to interact with the cockpit?

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    Now that I have the Crystal, I've decided to tip my toe into the whole VR thing and although the visuals are not on par with 2D (which will probably always look sharper & clearer), the immersion is off the charts, especially with spotting and the... "closeness" to the controls and the cockpit, which is excellent!

    But: I've tried using the controllers and even though the tracking especially to the side isn't good enough, the main problem is: switching from Hotas to a controller takes time, you have to find them on the desk and is just a major pain in the a$$.

    Also, if you're using the controllers to directly manipulate the switches, it is just way too imprecise!? Like actuating a specific button is kinda luck? -> this means you'll kinda have to use it with the "pointer" and thus it works exactly as the mouse, which is easier and more precise to use.

    So, I've mostly used the mouse so far and... it works pretty well. But it's only for my right hand, so I can't toggle anything with my left (sure, I could just attach another mouse, but have you tried using your "other hand" with a mouse? It's sooooo bad^^).


    Here are my thoughts (I don't have any of that hardware, so couldn't try it as of yet) and would like to ask your opinions or even better your findings with hardware you've tried:

    Handtracking

    • would eliminate the need to grab a controller/mouse (which you first have to find when in VR^^)
    • but has the same problem of being imprecise when directly manipulating controls?
    • so has to be used with pointer?

    which brings us to "ring mice"

    • "button box" on every index finger to accentuate controls, which you point to via handtracking seems like a VERY good idea! The problem is there's practically nothing you can buy
    • PoinCtrl has it's own tracking (which I guess doesn't need to be used) and is more or less unavailable
    • there is a Bluetooth version you can make yourself (Hackster.io or Instructables.com), but I wouldn't know how, nor do I know how good it actually works. Looks like the best PoinCtrl alternative though!
    • then there is Vanzy; which is only a Kickstarter product and seemingly unavailable. With JoyToKey I'm sure one could remap the buttons to what you need. I'd hope.
    • the only other alternative I've found: Aibyks Multifunctional Bluetooth Ring on Amazon (or other, less trustworthy places^^). Don't know how usable that would be, but I'd try it first, seeing the price and all that
    • haven't found any other so far...

    Haptic Feedback Gloves

    • no cheap options yet available
    • only bulky gloves priced at 4.000€ and more
    • would probably have the same issue as only Handtracking though, right? Like accidentally actuating controls in the cockpit and being imprecise when trying to toggle a switch?

    So, I don't know how right I'm with my conclusion being:

    • you either use the mouse or handtracking with pointer
    • or even more precise: handtracking with ring-mouse

    What do you use? What did you try and what's your conclusion? There are some sick setups out there, so there must be a "solution" to this problem (and I don't mean a 1:1 recreation of the cockpit^^).

     

    Thanks for your time and hoping for some great tips! Cheers!

    • Thanks 1

    Help with performance with Crystal + 4090

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    I totally agree!

    This has been a more of an academic question in the end, because you can't do anything about it, other then lowering the pixel density (not really viable) or upsampling (which is better, but still not that great).

    I just was baffled by, why the 4090 wouldn't perform as well as expected; well, I didn't expect such a large amount of pixels to be rendered tbh 😅

    And although playing in VR is very cool indeed, I'm still not sure I'll switch to it.
    1) the graphics in 2D are still better
    -> there isn't any pixelated shimmer from medium to long distance. It would need a way higher resolution to combat that... so, 6090 maybe?

    2) using the mouse and not your hands/fingers to actuate buttons is viable and better then using the controllers, but using physical buttons (UFC, MFDs) is just way better
    -> as long as you cannot reliably use 2 haptic feedback gloves (and from what I hear, this works still wonky at best) or you can use the cameras to bring your physical controls into DCS (which would pose another problem, because nobody has a 1:1 replica of all the planes at home), physical buttons are still best

    DCS tested with the Pimax Crystal

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    On 7/7/2023 at 4:18 PM, Callsign.Vega said:

    Having to look down in the cockpit so much, the Crystal was just a neck killer. And I already have a worn out neck after a career as a Army helicopter pilot. 

    I'm new to VR in DCS too (also the Pimax Crystal) and THAT was also my issue; I wanted it to work like TrackIR.

    -> fortunately, that's possible with this awesome tool: [Open]XrNeckSafer

    It's an OpenXR tool that needs to be running. Don't worry about all the features; just set the re-center button and use auto-rotation (you have to find the values that you like, just like with TrackIR).

    I use smooth rotation, which does feel a bit weird but is imho better then the step-rotation.

    Help with performance with Crystal + 4090

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    31 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

    My understanding is that it is not super-sampling but barrel distortion correction which is specific to each lenses and HMD combination.  Super-sampling means rendering at a higher resolution

    That's what I always thought to be true. Super Sampling in VR means a Pixel Density of over 1 (= 100%). But as I don't do that and I still have an extremely high resolution, this really has to be the barrel distortion.

    32 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

    this is not the case with barrel distortion correction as the HMD stretches the image by using shaders, which is much less demanding from the GPU.

    Really? I haven't yet had the time to research barrel distortion, but that sounds... unlikely. The only thing that nVidia was/is working on was called "MVR" - Multi-View Rendering, but no game every utilized that feature.
    https://developer.nvidia.com/vrworks/graphics/multiview

    47 minutes ago, WipeUout said:

    a value higher than 1.

    Nope, nowhere is it set beyond 1 or 100% pixel density.
    That is exactly my point: where is this resolution coming from. I'm gonna try my luck on the official Pimax Discord.

     

    Again, thank you all for your valued input!
    It's quite interesting to see how this all is working (this is not just for DCS; it's VR in general).

    • Like 1

    Help with performance with Crystal + 4090

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    On 8/5/2023 at 5:54 PM, mbucchia said:

    Yes the value in PimaxXR is per eye.

    Wait... what? But that would double the amount of calculated pixels?! That sounds... excessive.

    4k-UHD is "3840 x 2160", meaning a meager 8.29 MP.

    PimaxXR says 4.312 x 5.102. If this is the value per eye, that would mean it's not 21.99 MP (seems with 20.98MP I've miscalculated the last time), but double that? So 44 MP? That would be more then 8K-UHD (7.680x4.320 = 33.18 MP)... 

    Help with performance with Crystal + 4090

    in Virtual Reality

    Posted

    17 hours ago, Nedum said:

    Is that your first experience with DCS and VR?

    That it is; I'm still using the mouse to adjust controls, as the controllers don't work very well. That's probably partly because controllers are a bit weird and cumbersome in DCS anyway, and partly because the controllers and the tracking is pretty garbage (I've only used the original Vive 1 wands).

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