AndrewDCS2005

Also can't reproduce detection of tightly packed Mig-31s at more than 100nm. Have 64 Mig-31s going M2.8 at 42kft ASL, but no radar returns on DDD until about 100nm.

I think I've got the maximum feasible DCS AIM-54C-Mk47 hit after launch from 154nm distance to target (Tu-22M3 with 25% fuel going M1.88 at 40kft ASL). Ownship F-14B with 25% fuel going M2.05 at 41kft ASL. Phoenix flew for 3m 22s which is 2s more than its modelled battery life but still fused AIM-54C-Mk47-154nm-kill.trk AIM-54C-Mk47-154nm-kill.acmi

@Panny woah this would be amazing if replicated. This still matches the conditions I posted, so will definitely try it out. @Ivandrov will try few more times though at this point it is really just a second or two of launch window to max out the missile flight time before battery goes dead - my longer shots are always few sec late.

Thanks @Ivandrov! Indeed, the fastest I can get Tu-22M3 in DCS is Mach 1.88 at 40kft ASL (with 25% fuel and QNH 29.92, my earlier attempts had 100% fuel and lower pressure). Your shot shows 147.67nm - did Phoenix hit? Can you please share the track? My best attempt now is 143.8nm with AIM-54C-Mk47 which flew for 198s just 2s short of dead battery. AIM-54C-Mk47-144nm-kill.trk

Good discussion about real-world scenarios of USSR bomber run on USA CVBG and Tomcat mission and tactics. Putting this aside for a moment to find the limits of DCS F-14+AIM54 implementation, had to run a bit of math. Assuming both target and ownship alt = 35kft ASL and speed = Mach 2 (593 m/s) and knowing that Phoenix battery dies after 200s (when it covers approximately 86nm ground distance with these launch parameters), the max theoretical range would be = 593 * 200 / 1852 = 64 nm + 86 nm = 150 nm. However, turns out there is no suitable target in vanilla DCS (without mods) which combines large RCS to be detected > 150nm, and high speed to maintain Mach 2 at high altitude. Large bombers with high RCS are slow (B-1, Tu-160, Tu-22) and fast fighters with medium RCS (Mig-31, F-14) are detected by AWG-9 at much closer range. The fastest and largest target is Tu-22M3 with Mach 1.77 speed. In 200s it travels 56.7nm which puts max theoretical range at 86 + 56.7 = 142.7 nm Subtracting half-second for missile to be still on battery power at hit time, the max possible range for AIM-54 hit would be about 142 nm

@Ivandrov cool stuff, thanks for hints! After few tests I've got a kill on Tu-22M3 incoming at M1.8, from F-14B at M1.9 both 35kft ASL, launched AIM-54C-Mk60 from 139.8nm Missile flew for 3m 15s before hit, which is just 5s short of its battery life at 200s, and covered 84nm ground distance. You've mentioned hit under 150nm - can you share the track please? My attempts to shoot at a bit longer distance end up with missile battery dead within 2-3s before potential hit, and timing a shot for few sec later brings the distance under 140nm.null AIM-54C-Mk60-140nm-kill.trk

A bit surprising there are no responses - I was thinking longer shots are feasible with Phoenix and expected to see some advanced techniques. Will try a bit more myself.

There are definitely proficient pilots and RIOs here who mastered AN/AWG-9 and kinetics of AIM-54, so I thought of a small offline competition - show your longest air-to-air hit with a Phoenix Let's measure it as a straight-line distance to the aerial target at the moment of missile separation, and the missile has to hit the same target. Otherwise no additional limits and conditions for target, launch parameters, weather, etc. My best result so far: 114nm. Used AIM-54C-Mk60, Locked Tu-160 at 117.5nm, launched at 114nm, Phoenix climbed to 120kft ASL at Mach 2.75 and killed the target. Track attached (Caucasus map for simplicity of viewing). AIM-54C-Mk60-114nm-kill.trk

Yeah that response totally missed the point. Who needs all this hipster crap - TNDL, TWS, multi-target missile BVR. Go visual guns only, Boyd will approve No need to split the hair though - current DCS F-16 implementation of TWS+TNDL symbology does not meet its own DCS F-16 documentation. Bignewy already said "this is intended to be addressed along with the corresponding DTC feature." so lets wait for few more years (this thread is few weeks short of 2yo).

Looks like South Atlantic map is busted after update 2.9.20.15010 - many bugs noticed just in single view, most obviously the shore elevation seen under water. Normally I enjoy SA map a lot and use it for joyrides, but this update is not looking good at all. -camera -11.177412 10.168995 -966.032979 -cameradir 0.174002 -0.125379 -0.976731

Yep IRIS-T SLM C2 takes ~100 20mm for a kill (launcher and radar are ok). I might continue gradually testing various A2G weapons against all new assets, will let you know if anything. Using this opportunity - thanks again for your work and enriching the DCS world! Had a nice visual experience at dawn flying past Iskander takeoff and the contrail lighted by rising sun, it was cool!

Great, thank you a lot for quick response and fixing this!

9K720 Iskander (both loaded and empty after missiles launch) damage model has an issue. 100+ direct hits of PGU-28 SAPHEI ammo do not even scratch it. Track attached. Comparable assets like Scud/Smerch/Uragan are killed with 10-30 hits. 9K720-iskander-damage-model-issue.trk

@bandit648 absolutely outstanding work and thank you again! Just spent few hours at twilight time doing nothing but looking around with life-like beautiful views.

@Muchocracker L&S designation is fine, do you have info if current implementation (which is stated as WIP) already allows to launch, guide and hit MSI-only track by AIM-120 without locking the target with onboard radar? I've tried few times but no success so far.

Two questions on F/A-18C MSI please 1. release notes mentions AWACS - shouldn't all donors on TNDL network provide tracks for MSI? Is this coming in the future? 2. great transparency with known issues, but wouldn't it be better to complete the MSI with quality even if it takes another 3+ months? What is the reason to push it out now?

What I was looking for is something similar to @Minsky outstanding F/A-18C kneeboard and breakdown of CASE I/II/III but seems there's none (unless Minsky would gift us one for Tomcat ) Victory 205 IRL-inspired CASE I guide is great of course, thanks for bringing this up!

Are Tomcat Case I-III recoveries documented anywhere? Official Heatblur DCS F-14 Tomcat — Heatblur F-14 Tomcat 1.0 documentation does not have anything on carrier landing, and while there are some videos on YT on Case I (some 4+ years old) but where is the actual as-implemented DCS F-14A/B documentation on carrier ops? Hard to believe there's none.

No the issue is that second shot was either not guiding at all (first track) or was guiding and then stopped (second track) - while target remained in the same configuration as few sec before while guiding. For example, what happened here (4m37s into second track)?

Tested a bit more and have another interesting track - first Phoenix was guiding OK for 2min 10s but then stopped while having me in sight just 6nm away. Why? Second Phoenix was guiding only first 20s and then stopped. I don't think I was outside launcher's radar FOV. At 30-40nm range and M3+ I'd expect Phoenix to be lethal vs my sloppy defense, but somehow, they just stop guiding. What is happening here? AIM-54C-stop-guiding.zip.acmi AIM-54C-stop-guiding.trk

AIM-54C-MK60 launched by F-14B AI on me as target at 37nm distance. Missile takes 45 degree pitch up and goes for the stars (hitting 167kft ASL at apogee). While launcher had me ahead of him all the time (while dodging first fired Phoenix), looks like missile never guided. Looks like a bug to me. Track and tacview attached (Iraq map, can try to repro clean on Caucasus if needed). AIM-54C.zip.acmi AIM-54C.trk

@BIGNEWY thank you for specific response and looking into this. However, there are still more questions than answers, please. First of all, let's make sure one of the bugs in question is well understood since there was never a direct response to that. It is not about shape or color of the track, but the size of it. In one of two FCR images below, there is NO sufficient onboard FCR track data for bugging and shooting. In other of the two images below, there IS sufficient onboard FCR track data for bugging and shooting. Can you tell which is which? How would DCS F-16 user know? This is trivially reproducible 100% and clean repro tracks have been attached in previous messages in this thread. Is this a statement about future correct implementation? If so, why is that? These are two different states of the tracks, how would the pilot know the difference if FCR will show none?

Yeah, many threads on the same topic, some more than 3 years old. FCR CRM symbology is quite broken by the definition of ED's DCS F-16 own manual. Despite claiming "it works as intended", it was never demonstrated by anyone (ED or community) how to get all target tracks states and transition between them, with TNDL. As bad as it is, I no longer expect it to be fixed. F-16 is out of EA which by itself is just a formality, it was in EA for so many years it became meaningless. However, this marks a mental milestone of declaring it done and closed (and aggressively locking threads which point otherwise). While some fixes might come, it is no longer considered requiring significant work to close all the gaps. The focus is on future moneymakers - Mig-29, F-15, F-35 (don't tell me each module has its own team - we've heard this so many times, but the results speak for themselves; F-16 team might be 3 people total). The paradox is that flagship modules are half-done and half-broken, but the best available on the market at the same time A-10 is a notable exception since it was THE product back in the day - there was nothing else and entire business lived and breathed by it.