MeerCaT

One thing worth noting is that there are two 'zoom-like' camera features: - camera zoom - camera/head move Be sure that the camera/head movement isn't positioned to be fully forward (nose presed up against the HUD :)) I don't know the head movement controls for this off hand but just check them in game and then see if you are able to move the camera back at all.

The "Altitude" mission that comes with the game is all about escorting a heli that is conducting an insertion. Without knowing anything about mission editing, I'd say take a look at the mission planner for that mission for an idea of how it can me done.

May or may not be of any use and/or interest to those having installation troubles, but here is the process I followed and it worked for me: [- Operating system: Win 7 - 32 bit] - Steam version of BS1 installed - Downloaded BS2 installer files from DCS website - through FTP links (not torrent) - Installed BS2 (Note, the installer made absolutely no reference to or acknowledgement of the existing BS1 steam installation) - Ran BS2 ...it failed to run! (sorry, can't remember what error message was produced) - I believe BS2 (using the A-10C 'enginey bits' under-the-hood) is intended to be run on 64-bit machine running a 64-bit Windows operating system, (I'm sure someone could confirm or correct me on this) - Followed this advice found within the game's Readme file (to address some memory issue when trying to run it on a 32-bit OS): - BS2 then worked fine - Uninstalled BS1 - Played BS2 - Got annoyed with the triiiiii..... Don't say it!! - Threw my rattle out the craddle and sulked for a bit - Manned-up and discovered the joys of Flight Director (but don't tell anyone I use this - it's not real life procedure apparently) - Burned some bridges down. (Never mind, private joke) Um... yeah, and that your honour is the whole story. Oh, and I swear she said she was 20. Not a day under 18 at least!

Oooh shiny! I think I spot a bloom effect. Is that coming in an update? Is that part of the Nevada map or current map.

It's a good point about how the collective has a definite effect on the attitude of the aircraft. It's certainly worth keeping that in mind while performing manouvres. But going back to my original post, I guess would summarise my point as being: I don't fully understand the decision logic employed by the flight control system when it is calculating its contribution to inputs. And because of this the reactive behaviour I observe when trimming is not meeting the behavour that my subconscious mind calculated as an expectation. So I am here simply to discover the information I am clearly lacking that will bring my own mind's expectation calculation inline with the Shark's flight control calculations. I am not suggesting the simulator is implemented incorrectly (though certainly somehow differently to the previous version). Rather that the training of my brain is incomplete/inaccurate due to missing information/knowledge. Using your example of the +10 degree pitch with 11m/s climb rate - at that moment the pitch was steady and the climb rate, although possibly still increasing, was also quite stable and only changing slowly. The instant that trim was performed, the control system made calculations that resulting in an additional +10 degrees pitch (approximately), and as a side effect of that the climb rate shot up to 17m/s. Was the pitch maintained as it was? - No. Was the climb/descent rate maintained? - No. So what additional inputs/data/issues are at play here that I am not taking insto consideration, I wonder?

Well I wouldn't know about that. Rough landings aren't my thing! :) (Just kidding. I'm still very much a rookie virtual-pilot) Yeah let's not hijack this thread with autopilot/T-word stuff, but an interesting point to note is how I activated Flight Director mode for this entire shenanigans. As you'll see in the "Don't mention..." thread, I pointed out that the FD mode is my preferred flight mode for acrobatics and arzing about. I agree with your point about 'real life procedures'. Of course there is very little legitimate reason for a helicopter to be driving along a public road. But on the flip side, since this is a heavily physics-based (and pretty accurately modelled) simulator I would argue that the accuracy of its physics model is a bit weak in this area. On yet another tangent, has anyone else noticed how this world consists entirely of single track roads? I don't recall ever seeing a road that could take more than one vehicle side-by-side. Just a thought.

Thanks for the video. It's good to see the real life thing from the pilots view. I notice in that video there is no heading 'diamind' on the HUD. I'd say the pilot perhaps has the heading AP channel switched off. (Though I hear real life pilots would always have these channels on). Or is it maybe just a slightly different version of the HUD software to the one we see in game?

I'm saying nothing. Just take a look at this track: :huh: LondonBridge.trk

Firstly, Viper thanks for taking the time that you did, and kudos for the bridge stunt. (You just had to out do my powerlines piece didn't you!) But let me shake some of that brown off my nose by pointing out how I noticed you shyed away from the 'random attitude' button during your bridge and landing manouvres; and baiscally anytime that the safety of your neglected but nevertheless valued bottom requires the ability to control the beast in a predicable, logical and intricate manner. What, don't you trust your nameless-mechanism to not give you an imprompu face-to-floor meeting at these delicate times? <commence tongue out procedue; deploy raspberries...> (You know I'm just kidding right? ...your bottom isn't really that valuable!) Never one to pass up the opportunity for a good tangent - this topic has got me thinking about the various flight modes of the BlackShark and how they apply to the many different flying situations. The way I see it, any given flight will contain one or more of the following 'situations/stages/phases/modes': Simple travel (straight line or curved) between two points (long or short distance) Medium-long distance flight path following Intricate, precision and delicate manouvering; such as: takeoff, landing, positioning relative to environment/objects, etc. Fast-paced abrupt manouvering; such as emergencies and acrobatics Hovering (although technically could classify as an 'intricate precision' situation, it is worthy of it's own category I feel) <completely skipping over more detailed combat activities> ...you could think of more I'm sure... Now let's consider the different flight 'modes' of our lovely Shark: 'naked/raw' - no computer aided control whatsoever (for those that like to rock and roll!...and have a penchant for eating dirt) Pitch, Bank, Heading 'damping' (let's throw in Altitude as well). I am tempted to call this "normal" just for the sake of giving it a name, but I feel so dirty doing so. I'll call it "damp" instead. 'Moist' if you will. Yes, definitely moist mode. Effective whenever trimming is not active Pitch, Bank, Heading 'holding' - Takes effect while trimming is in place and active Flight Director (FD) Autopilot Route Auto Hover Descent Shkval yaw (auto turn to target) - this is more of a combat-based mode. Let's ignore it for now. Guns 'an that, Pah! Have a daisy for your hair. Love thy neighbour man! ... he said what about my mum?! Doris, fetch me my Vihkrs! (No not my "slippers"!!) Ok, so when (situation) to use what (flight mode)? Here's how I would marry the two lists together: Mode: Raw Situation: No. Never. Don't do it. Naughty. Bad boy. Sit Booboo, sit. [*]Mode: Normal ...no, Moist ...no, Damping Trim, trim and ...what was the 3rd one? Oh, and trim again. While trim is active this simple damping-only mode isn't, and since we fly at ALL times in a trimmed state this mode will hardly ever be in effect. (Depending on ones trim strategy). Not used - by me. [*]Mode: Holding Situation: 1) Simple travel [*]Mode: Flight Director Situation: 2) Flight path (maybe, sometimes), 3) Intricate, 4) fast-paced (emergency, acrobatics, and general arzing about. In fact I would like to petition to have the label on the FD button changed to reflect this. We can use an abreviation of "eaga", or perhaps simply "arze"?) [*]Mode: Route Situation: 2) Flight Path [*]Mode: Hover Situation: 3) Intricate, 5) Hovering [*]Mode: Descent Situation: 3) Intricate, 5) Hovering Side note: bluepilot, what is this famous youtube video thou doth speak of?

I want to be very careful we do not confuse the issue, so I would just like to make it very clear that we are talking here about non-force feedback controllers only. I stress this point because I understand there is a known issue that relates only to force feedback controllers. So I think it is important we keep threads completely separate for the two types of contoller.

"Trim!" - there I said it. Nobody wants to hear it, I know, but it had to be said and now we can all move on with our lives. Now then, for the only two people continuing to read this thread I would like to share a short flight 'track' (and accompanying bare-bones mission file) I have recorded. [see attached] If you watch this track I would love to hear back from you regarding how this compares with your own experiences of the beloved trim mechanism. Of course any general tips/comments on my flying will be greatly recieved, but the purpose of the flight was to probe and analyse the mechanism-that-cannot-be-named. During the flight I repeatedly hold a (fairly?) steady attitude, with either the nose up gently, nose down gently or banking gently. While holding the steady attitude I 'tap' the you-know-what button. All documentation (that I've ever come across at least - PDF manual and numerous forum postings) indicate the following actions will occur at this point: ...<skip technical details that we are all too familar with by now>... - the physical position of the (in-game) cyclic and pedals are maintained ('fixed' if you like) - the auto pilot system(s) will attempt to maintain the current attitude (or rate of turn, if appropriate) within a certain limit of control authority (20%). From the track, you might observe that each time the T button is 'clicked' the helicopter is being held at a pretty stable attitude. So once the cyclic and pedals have been fixed in place by the T mechanism, the autopilot shouldn't really have very much work to do (if any) to maintain the attitude. However, for reasons I am here to discover, the autopilot is seeing fit to provide some additional input, which I don't believe is at all necessary. Each time the T button is clicked I quickly return my (non-force feedback) joystick controller to neutral. Yet in the track you may see that (aside from the small 'bump' effect caused by not returning my controller to neutral quick enough) the helicopter is lurching to a greater or lesser degree further in the direction of the current attitude. For example, holding a gentle nose-down attitude and clicking the T button results in an overly exaggerated nose down attitude. ('Bump' effect exluded). The extent to which this exaggeration takes effect seems to be somewhat proportional to the extent of deviation of the current attitude from the 'level' attitude. Does anyone else observe this when watching that track, or experience it during their own flight? This effect seems much more pronounced in Black Shark 2 than I remember it being in Black Shark 1 (which I have now uninstalled). In BS1 I don't remember experiencing any significant struggle using the 'T' mechanism but in BS2 I feel in constant battle against this 'exaggeration' effect. I can get a little frustrated with it, not because it is difficult but more because I simply don't understand the cause of the effect; and the reason for not understanding is because the observed behaviour does not correspond to the documented behaviour of the mechanism. If the pilot is already holding a steady attitude, then why when 'T'-ing would the autopilot think it necessary to provide ANY additional input whatsoever? The 'locking' of the cyclic and pedals is clearly all that is necessary to maintain the attitiude (assuming no change in external forces, such as wind strength/direction) because that is all the pilot was doing before he/she unwisely chose to press the "random attitude" button :) Basically, my subconsious expectation of the T behaviour that was built up during 50+ hours in BS1 does not feel applicable to BS2. What makes it feel worse is that I am struggling to build up a new subconsious model of expectation for the new behaviour. Is it really just a case of putting in the hours to train my brain on this? Or are there a few golden nuggets of information that I am missing to complete the puzzle? Thanks all. My Controls: - Saitek X54 "Flight Control System" (not a force feedback controller) - Saitek "Pro Flight Rudder Pedals" ToyingWithTrim3.trk TrimTesting.miz