Vivoune

I wasn't talking about Vive specifically, I thought I wrote "whether the Rift or the Vive, whether Pixel density slider at 1 or 2.5 [...]". ;) I'm merely trying to manage the OP's expectations that might have seemed a tad hopeful in terms of visual clarity and how it quickly gets very GPU intensive for some anti aliasing gains.

Still keep in mind that whether the Rift or the Vive, whether Pixel density slider at 1 or 2.5, it will still be low resolution, very 'pixely' and not even close to any 2D screen. Some people don't mind it and would never go back to 2D screens, others cannot stand the low resolution and go back to 2D screens completely or only for competitive sessions. Personally I love my VR headset but I still go back to my 1440p screen when the image clarity is necessary for the mission. The immersion is absolutely subpar in comparison but the image clarity in current VR gen is simply too detrimental to some scenarios. It's odd that you have good results in the Su-27 and not the F-15 though. It could be the F-15 is more resource intensive and sends your system over the stability threshold. Try playing with everything on low with the density slider to 1 and see if there are still issues with the F-15. I'd disable your SLI setup too, SLI has never been a healthy testing bed.

Good summary Shabi thank you for that. Personally I found the Vive to be comfy enough, I found it as comfortable as the OR rigid system, but quite harder to set up correctly, you do have to mess with the straps and cable tension a bit that's for sure. Then again everyone's anatomy is unique. Personally I had no issues with the Rift's tracking system, it was near perfect for a seated experience. Do you have any sort of IR light pollution that might interfere in the background? In terms of optics, didn't you notice a difference in image brightness, contrasts and colorimetry? I found that was the main reason I chose to stick with the Vive as I felt things looked a tad less crisp but felt more natural and real in comparison to looking at the world through light sunglasses through the Rift. ATW sure is the Rift's strongest selling point currently, I hope something as good comes to the Vive soon enough.

I don't hate Facebook nor Oculus, not at all. Even if I would that doesn't take away from the hardware quality. If it weren't for their strategy I probably would have bought an Oculus on top of the Vive. I just think their business strategy is choking an emergent market which it needs the most is expansion. And everyone is entitled to its own opinion hansangb, no hard feelings. Once we can get some numbers in the future it'll be interresting to see which strategy paid the best, if the market hasn't been choked down. Of course every business is motived by greed, but the strategy it adopts to reach its goals are important. I was simply stating things straight before some would go on about how Oculus have completely changed their politics as you can already read everywhere. Many are jumping on the thank-you-everything-is-forgotten! wagon without even realizing that being forced into taking that step back Oculus gains some control back, the alternative for them was a completely cracked platform. They didn't have a choice and it completely is in line with their politics so far.

Yup Oculus took a step back. That should give them some slack from the community. ^^ But sadly that's not a sign of a change of heart from Oculus. -They released with an exclusive Store -Revive devs allowed Vive users to buy and play from the Oculus store -Oculus answer by adding hardware checks -Revive devs answer by completely removing the Oculus DRM (allowing Vive users to play all Oculus store games 'for free') -After consideration Oculus takes a step back so that Revive can add the DRM back. Oculus started a piracy arms-race it cannot win. They just took a step back because that’s in their best interest, in fear of having their whole store pirated instead of simply useable on the Vive. I wouldn’t call that a good will nor the end of that mess by any means. But it surely isn’t a step in the wrong direction.

Yes I think a gtx 970 or equivalent is the minimum. That's what I have and it's working fine with most things on low.

Nice hunt. I find VR particularly shine in WW2 aircraft. :thumbup: I can't wait for 4k per eye, we'll be in VR heaven.

Chivas, no offense but your speech really sounds like the sort of person you claim to base your lack of credits on. Regardless, I don't see how any of that addresses anything that we've been discussing. You say I have no idea what I'm talking about and I think you're misinformed. Let's leave it at that and not monopolize this thread in vain attempts to change each other's minds. If you absolutely feel the need to shout how everyone's making a fuss are misguided uneducated fanboys I'd invite you to post an exact copy of your previous comment on a VR forum, subreddit, Oculus Rift's or Vive's and read the responses from people that are willing to spend much more time than I to bring to your attention things that you disregard and see as hysterical fanboyism. In the end if you're perfectly happy with your Rift and the company behind it that's all that should matter to you, there's no need to come enforce your Facebook/Oculus opinion on a HTC/Vive DCS thread.

Having a couple of exclusive titles doesn't even begin to describe the root of the problem. Much more is happening that gets Oculus/Facebook stuck in a public opinion's tantrum spirale. If you can't be bothered to inform yourself a little about the whole picture of what's happening in VR there's not much point into debating it really.

The way a company runs and handle its product and userbase is as important as the product itself, especially considering that's what is defining the VR foundations of tomorrow's VR landscape we'll all be evolving in. I don't believe exchanging opinions on the matter is counter-productive or off topic, many people do take these things into consideration when making a VR HMD choice and I know a few people personally that genuinely think the Rift is the best unit for DCS yet they go for the Vive because of the way Oculus are handling things. That's, for some people, just as important as pixel density or a bigger FOV. :joystick:

Yes the Customer support is awful 9 times out of ten. Although the Vive support is HTC's responsibility, not Steam. Clearly HTC didn't prepare a customer support service for this. You're unlikely to have any result at all through chat or Email services. The best approach is through the phone, it is quite easy to get a person on the phone. Though to have a person that is educated about the Vive is a whole other matter. It seems there's no specific Vive service yet and the majority of HTC's customer support hasn't yet been trained to support requests related to the Vive. I've had to call them for billing reasons and although they were very helpful and willing to do everything they could, they just had to first fish for Vive procedures internally every time. Waiting a few months seems sensible. You could also take the plunge for another unit knowing that you can return them even if that's by dealing with average customer support. You could also buy a second hand unit for a decent price (now that there is no Vive backlog anymore) with the assurance that the previous owner properly tested the headset to be without any issues. Steam doesn't hold you hostage though, they are quite open as a company and that is also true with the Vive, you don't need Steam to operate any headset. You can play your Steam games on the Rift or any upcoming VR headset if you want.

I would suggest you get up to date with the facts you seem to base your opinion on. Check Oculus or Vive subreddits, Steam or Oculus forums, various VR game forums or specialized press articles. Well, check the Internet. :thumbup:

Although I still prefer the Vive I really liked the Rift when I tried it, so imho there's no bad choice. But Hardware aside, there are also ethical considerations a lot of us cannot ignore. Oculus is doing everything it can to hurt the VR industry for short term profits and is trying to 'bribe' many developers into dropping Vive support in favor of an Oculus exclusivity. Meanwhile HTC/Steam are doing everything they can to offer and support every VR Headsets. I know a lot of people don't care for that, feel that doesn't concern them or that this is just normal business. But that's something many people cannot stand. Anyone curious about it should check both Oculus and/or Vive reddit boards for exemple. People should be aware of the kind of company they're supporting as everyone's choice is helping steering the nascent VR market in very different directions. If they don't care it's fine, but they should do so while being informed. I'm really happy and proud of Eagle Dynamics that support both headsets, that assures me they have VR and their community as a whole best interests in mind.

I invite you guys to watch Wags' latest video on his channel. He always manages to casually sneak in plenty of news about what's coming to DCS. Aside a nice A-10C run, you'll hear plenty of new information on VR implementation for DCS, as well as many other things to come for DCS World. [ame] [/ame]

Thanks for your (yet another!) first impressions Derek. We're definitely all early adopters. I think both Vive and the Rift will really only shine if they can manage to substantially improve on pretty much all front (comfort, fov, lense artifacts, SDE, resolution & weight). Hopefully the second iteration of both HMDs will be top notch and in the mean time by then most sims and drivers will be mature and optimized to offer smooth performances on the latest builds.

I'm not sure what you mean, but if you mean recentering the view in-game, the hotkey is numpad 5.

You're right to bring that up. :thumbup: Much like many reviewers tends to 'reduce' the Vive to Roomscale, many also forget to mention the Rift can already to standing just as well.

You're generalizing and using shortcuts. I can afford a Rift and keep both headsets if I wanted, money is not a problem. I advised people to buy Rifts rather than the Vive IRL as well as on this very forum , I don't feel the need to defend it and justify my purchase nor one piece of hardware over the other. That being said, I agree with you, it's an opinion that is fairly widespread that the Rift is better for seated while the Vive is better for roomscale. I never said it was an exception. But look around in youtube, forums and reddit and you'll find just about the same amount of people that prefer the Vive while talking about seated experiences only, it's the internet, if you look for one side or the other, you'll find what you want to read. Most professional reviewers though also only talk roomscale with the Vive because it is its prominent feature and one that most defines it compared to the Rift as of today, to a point where they forget the Vive does seated just as well. You even see plenty of people now thinking the Vive cannot do seated games at all... I've had the chance to try both lately and as far as I could tell they're pretty similar so imho you can cancel whatever pre-order you want and you'll still be left with a great VR headset for simming, Rift or Vive. If all you do is seated sims though and don't mind the Oculus policy VR tantrum then the Rift is, imho, the one to keep because it's cheaper. ;) But I'm sorry, about that person's video, you can't do a comparison of the same hardware in a different environment, not even mention the environment similarities or differences and hope to grow fair conclusions from such a precarious experiment, the methodology is distored and will only result in an unbiased person reading biased results. Many Rift owners will love that video for sure and give him praise for it but don't take it as a fair assessment of both hardware's strength and weaknesses. It's as if tech websites would benchmarks different GPUs using a different game or driver version for every different GPU. Readers wouldn't take it seriously. But for some reason, people are so entangled in one hardware being better than the other that it jumps on anyone's opinion like its gospel. Personally for seated experiences I prefer the Vive. Whenever someone gets an HMD, Vive or Rift, I see him/her as a new VR pal to share experiences with, not as a Rift's competitor threatening my way of life so whatever you end up getting, share your opinions with us when you'll be blown away by the sense of presence! I assure you all these long hours spent reading, comparing and debating about every single feature or specs will seem far away.

Exactly, I read your well put review of the Vive and how disappointing you found the hardware was while your OR CV1 preview put your DK2 to shame. To me it proves my point that there is so many different opinions the only good and sensible advice is to have people try both before taking the plunge. You demoe'd both HMD's CV and found the Vive to barely be atop the DK2, I demo'ed both HMD's CV and found them very similar for the most part, ask another one and he/she'll say the Vive is leagues ahead. What's important is that you're happy with your purchase and that DCS supports both HMDs. But having tried both first hand and in light of the amount of discrepancy in people's opinion in the past few weeks It is my personal opinion that no HMD is the universally better choice for simming. At least not for the reasons cited above, if it must be chosen it's for its cheaper price, which is why even as a Vive owner I advised many people to buy the Rift for seated games as you get, in my experience, the same for a better price. I look forward to trying it on longer sessions though, you can feel the difference in weight will make a difference for intense dogfight. :P

I've had the chance to try a rift yesterday night, in Luckey's tale, DCS 1.5 and Assetto Corsa (although not for long sadly, it was late, we're considering trading HMDs for a week though out of curiosity). I stand by everything I've stated earlier, the Rift does have a more subtle SDE, a bit crisper screen and better sweet spot but that's when being picky and looking for differences, its clarity, lower FOV or sweet spot didn't jump on me compared to the Vive like many claims it should. (No SS was in effect and all DCS quality was on LOW & flat like home). The only substantial differences I've noticed are screen's brightness, contrast and colors which feels more "alive" and real on the Vive while ATW that really provided a butter smooth experience in the Rift (though no start from ramp was done, it was only instant action free flying at reasonable heights, all the time clear summer sky at noon). To me, the screen qualities of the Vive are preferable as it's a bit less crisp but the feeling of immersion mor ethan makes up for it. But that's subjective. Like I've said in another post, some people will find the differences are night & day while others find it's nitpicking on any or all differences. I don't know if it's personal tolerances, anatomy, eye vision, glasses, quality control or what, but the differences in opinion seems to me as wide between people as both HMD's hardware are similar on the paper. I'm just genuinely happy for people that finds one or either HMD have such drastic differences that it creates specialty and one or the other HMD is undeniably the absolute best for what they want to do with it, that they could previex it for themselves and feel they've made the right choice. I'm one of those that, for seated flight and racing simming, really truly love both the Rift and Vive and if as a potential VR buyer I wouldn't at this point in time put much weight in anyone's opinion that would find one or the other to be vastly superior for flight/racing sims. In my humble opinion no one could go wrong with either but considering the vast differences in opinion, perception and interpretation that still eludes me now that I've tried both, the only thing I'd advise anyone that might be on the fence about an HMD for simming is to try both before you buy if possible and form your own personal opinion. ^^'

No doubt that's a great video for people looking for confirmation on their OR purchase. If it were such night & day, black& white and "wow" factor, it'd have showed up on sims reviews/impressions of both HMDs. The guy has no idea what settings was being used, what setup it's been tried on nor even if SS was in effect. Sharing hardware opinions on two screens while comparing it with different images, as neutral and unbiased as the guy is, is as rigorous of a review as comparing the Vive and the OR in Elite Dangerous.

Disable V-sync should solve your stuttering. Though with a GTX970 you'll still have some frame drops around towns that'll bring some stuttering back I'm buying all my modules through Eagle Dynamic's websites, no problem running 1.5 or 2.0 in the Vive. The Vive isn't locked to Steam games. As for which HMD is the better choice, it's a bit like buying a TV, there's only compromises, some will prefer some features different than others.

Never say never. That's also the reaction from a few flight simmer friends when they came to try it out. I think with the good controller haptic feedback it could serve as a nice and precise hand to switch buttons and switches in the cockpit considering its precision and how natural it is to use them (and how they appear in VR even when not in use for you to pick it up so easily). I still think the best solution will be some kind of gloves, but in the mean time I think it could be the next best thing in VR for cockpit management.

Roomscale asides. You'll be met with varied opinions. Some prefer the Vive slightly higher FOV while others prefer the Rift's slightly cripser screen. Some prefer the Vive's comfort while others prefer the Rift's rigid strap system. Some prefer the Vive's more contrasted and vivid screen while others prefer the dimmed Rift's brightness. Some say any or all of these HMD's differences are night and day, others say they're so minimal you couldn't tell should you try them a day apart. Personally, all in all, I think most people are nitpicking. For every side by side sim enthusiast's review someone will post you favoring one HMD, you can find someone else preferring the other. The only real advantage currently is the Rift's ATW, but that's software development and I think it's fair to say both sides will evolve rather quickly in that regard over the coming months for better or worse no one knows. Personally I went with the Vive mostly because I despise Oculus's shady policies and console war mentality they're trying to bring in PC and just couldn't bring myself to support that with my hard earned money. I was also interested in Roomscale, I like the idea of doing security checks around aircraft, to name only one possibility within simming. If you don't care about such politics nor roomscale one bit, then I think the Rift is the way to go, simply because it's cheaper for a comparable seated experience.

I don't think so. And as much as I like SteamVR, I'm not launching DCS through Steam.