Emu

This? http://warmonitor.net/news/2015/10/09/reports-turkey-shoots-down-russian-jet-in-airspace-violation/ Think we're going to need a little more to go on.

Well all the missiles fall under the 'Klub' category, so altitude varies. Long range cruise missiles can be programmed to fly at any altitude you like but I suspect they were using low altitude to avoid detection by radar alerting the groups they were aiming at. Russians say all missiles hit and were tracked from the air in Syria.

In fairness that was only after they left, just as was the case with Vietnam and the US, and in both cases the other superpower was supplying the other side. Ultimately nobody can be bothered to stay in these places for the eternity it requires. Anyway, politics LOL, or history at any rate, which is too close to politics.

More on the cruise missiles: http://mobile.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSKCN0S20J920151008

Yeah or CNN quotes two unnamed US officials, or better yet, doesn't actually quote them - note lack of quotation marks in article - and can't provide a scrap of evidence, either of the event itself, or which officials made the statements, or what they actually said. All the hallmarks of quality journalism right there. Don't think it really matters on fence side if you look at it objectively.

Hmmm... and one day later and there is not a scrap of evidence in the 24hr media?? It's pretty difficult to hide the effect of four 450kg warheads. Sounds like they were tracking phantom radar signatures unless we can see some damage.

Source? You also mentioned that they strayed there in the other thread, they didn't, that was their intended flight path from the Caspian (not Mediterranean) Sea.

They travelled through Iran and Iraq to Syria.

Wouldn't a Top Gun remake be boring as hell with today's technology?

Article on Su-34 production with pictures: http://gelio.livejournal.com/211509.html

Who'd want the job of deciding RoE?

RBK-500-SPBE-D?

Su-25 with KAB-500S.

Found this, any truth? -3 October 12:08, a Russian aircraft crossed Turkish border at Hatay/Yayladağı while conducting bombing operations at Yamadiya. Aircraft was intercepted by two F-16s and locked on by radar, but was not shot down as Russian aircraft retreated back to Syrian side of the border. EDIT: According to military sources, aircraft was not using IFF but identified as Su-30 type which is only used by Russian air force, and rechecked as not being Su-24 or MiG-29 types Syria uses. Aircraft strayed several hundred meters into Turkish side, Russians claim it happened due to "navigational error". Turkish Ministry of Foreign affairs called Russia's ambassador and strongly protested: "We demanded to avoid reccurance of such intrusions, and Russian Federation will be responsible for any undesirable event that may occur, and reminded the current Turkish rule of engagement that any military asset that approaches within 5 miles of Turkish border from Syria will be regarded as a threat." -4 October, Turkish Armed Forces daily events report: Air force command: Along the Turkish-Syria border CAP mission is conducted with 10 F-16 aircraft. During this mission, two of our F-16s were threatened by maintaining radar lock for a total of 5 minutes 40 seconds, by a MiG-29 aircraft *whose nationality cannot be identified*. Regarding both events President Davutoğlu said today (translates as): "We warned Russia through diplomatic channels, to not interfere with Turkish border affairs. Our rules of engagement are clear and applies to everyone and TSK is instructed as such. ... We, at first, warn anyone who crosses our borders in a friendly manner, but we dont recommend anyone, friend or foe, to cross our borders." Russian response was throughly diplomatic; "We will have to verify the data given to our Ankara ambassador, we don't think Turkish-Russian relationship will be shaken by our air operations as our mutually benefical relationship is based on solid grounds."

Oh, a search on YT brought this up, can't remember which one it was. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=PLeIzHhBSrVIalEZ9SV2ac40Oj_3DrIeSp Didn't realise there was a 250kg version of KAB.

zQOM0ZXKJmo S85K8YwbGS8 PLeIzHhBSrVIalEZ9SV2ac40Oj_3DrIeSp

A simple stretch of logic dictates that if an aircraft can't get lock before 30s, there's no good reason why it would suddenly succeed after 30s.

They just destroyed it? Surely there were plenty of candidates in Northern Iraq and Syria to drop it on.

I don't think anyone can actually cite an instance of an air combat training exercise where both sides agreed on the results in the whole of history. RAF vs USAF - different accounts Luftwaffe vs USAF - different accounts USAF vs PAF - different accounts RAF vs IAF 2007 - different accounts RAF vs IAF 2011 - different accounts RAF vs IAF 2015 - different accounts USAF vs IAF - different accounts RAF vs French AF - different accounts Luftwaffe vs French AF - different accounts I'm seeing a pattern.:lol:

Well overall it puts the defensive side at a disadvantage I guess, since they can't fire first. I'm not sure what version of the R-77 India use. If it's the R-77-1 then it's closely matched to AIM-120C5 range, if it's the earlier one, then the AIM-120C5 has a significant edge in range. Radar-wise, ranges are similar against fighter targets: http://www.niip.ru/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8:2011-07-18-12-25-58&catid=8:2011-07-06-06-33-26&Itemid=8 http://typhoon.starstreak.net/Eurofighter/sensors.html But the PIRATE system probably has a range advantage over OLS as regards target ID, not sure of the RoEs on that but it is a real life issue. http://www.webcitation.org/6J6cwo1bR Jamming-wise the Typhoon has solid-state active phased array DRFM, not sure if the Indians have that on the Su-30s. https://www.myaoc.org/eweb/images/aoc_library/Events/2002/102802_CONV/02CONV_Proceedings/Day2/Track2/Bacchelli.pdf

I'd have thought it was obvious. You can't win a dogfight against HOBS, LOAL and HMCS with a forward-firing LOBL missile, it's impossible... especially when it's 2vs1 - that's more of an insult to the pilots than the plane, if anything. A statement made by the RAF and, crucially, inside quotation marks and reported by a well respected national newspaper that simply isn't in the business of attributing quotes to the UK military that were never made. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/indian-air-force-beats-raf-120-in-training-exercise--using-russiandesigned-jets-10444466.html http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/indian-air-forces-top-guns-score-wins-in-the-uk-1204336?site=full You are right about the fuel tanks though: