Hummingbird

Excuse me?? You do realize that fighter pilots are not gods right? They're human just like everyone else, and they're often highly competitive and will assert to the end of their days that their crate was/is the best. I'll take the words of exhaustive flight testing meticulously documented rather than fighter jock tall tales any day, and say that out of experience talking to many fighter pilots and realizing how contradictory their opinions are, esp. when it comes to how "their crate" compares to the others. Btw I am total Viper fanboy (hence why you see me pushing to get the FM fixed so much), but I won't let that get in the way of reality.

Butthurt Viper pilot incoming :megalol::megalol::megalol::megalol: I wonder if this is the same guy who was bashing Vet F-14 JockKeith "Okie" Nance in the comment section on YouTube? :shifty: It's always a shame when someone is too busy making stuff up to actually comprehend what is being said. (*cough* horizontal turn fight *cough*) But hey Oldtimesake, if you want we can do a dogfight, F-14 vs F-16 in DCS, both aircraft follow their real life STR graphs perfectly (F-16 lacks a bit of ITR, but shouldn't be a problem according to Viper Joe there), so we can simulate what will happen when neither aircraft is weighed down by any significant amount of ordnance or peacetime G limits, and then afterwards you tell me.

A game, sure, but in the enthusiast/professional simulator category. Hence there are some boundaries you want to stay within unless you want to lose that distinction of "simulator" Specifically I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to use the aux flaps in a fight if you so wish. Everything you can or could do in real life should be possible in a sim. What I am saying is that with this freedom the realistic consequences, both aerodynamically & damage wise, should accompany a decision to do so, otherwise it becomes very gamey.

:thumbup:

Copy that. If that's how it is then it's as it should be, realism over preference always. Thank you for the response.

At M 0.67 9.0 G's should be reachable according to the real life performance charts, but 8.7-8.8 is the best that can be achieved. This is with 2x AIM9 + 4x AIM120 + 2xfuel tank wing pylons + centerline pylon (i.e. DI = 50), and 26,000 lbs, 15 C std. atm, exactly replicating the conditions in the performance charts.

Cost and politics.

Just leave it in auto, it's what the real pilots would do. The abuse of the flaps is just, ugh... esp. since most end up jamming them, i.e they only care about winning that one dogfight at all costs, even if their aircraft is broken and a sitting duck to everyone else afterwards. Win the dogfight whilst leaving it in auto, just like the real pilots, the aircraft is perfectly capable of this vs all other fighters in the sim, and on the plus side you wont cause self inflicted damage doing so.

Yeah I know its probably been a while, but it definitely changed since I last flew it regularly some time ago. I was just wondering as I found it a lot less intuitive to fly, as I was unable to ride the limit because of earlier and less progressive buffeting behavior. Now this might all be totally correct behavior, it just stuck out when I started flying it again last week and I wondered wether you might have gone too far adjusting it. Only a real Cat pilot could tell ofcourse, so I hope you will ask for their input on the matter if not already done.

Before going on vacation I noticed that buffeting whilst turning in the cat had changed. It seems like it starts a lot sooner than before (before refers to ~3 months ago, as I just started flying it again lssy week), and that it remains fairly constant in nature. As a result I found it hard to tell from visual clues when I was close to the limit as compared with before. I'd expect a lot less buffeting before 15 units of AoA is crossed, but since Im not a real life cat pilot I wouldnt know for sure. Is this how it should be, or will this be adjusted further? I hope the latter ad I find it quite difficult to ride the cat to the limit atm

Any change with the latest patch? Can't check myself as I'm in holiday.

Erm, it can't be draggier as it's achieving the same speeds ingame with less HP and a larger surface area. I can achieve 326 KTAS at SL with the Mustang, and 325 KTAS with the D9.

Erm, it can't be draggier as it's achieving the same speeds ingame with less HP and a larger surface area. I can achieve 326 KTAS at SL with the Mustang, and 325 KTAS with the D9.

Donald Caldwell is not the most trustworthy of sources... He has presented a lot of misinformation disputed by other books and actual 190 pilots. Like for example that the A8 turned better than the D9, where'as in reality the reverse is true, the D9 being both lighter, less draggy and more powerful engine wise.

Still not addressed... come on ED, it's impossible to properly use the radar without this. Press the up or down button once and it changes 10-20kft in elevation, it's crazy.

Well we do have the established performance of the aircraft from exhaustive flight testing, as well as the FLCS logic. The hard part is what the developers are standing with, i.e. how to apply that to the sim so that it works like IRL.

@BIGNEWY Do you know wether there's been any progress on this internally ? Just curious.

It's a very tiny edge though, and the F-14's rather massive advantage in radius makes staying in the horizontal against the cat a very risky thing to do. You are basically forced to use the vertical eventually, which if you do (as any -16 pilot would) should give the -16 the overall edge in a dogfight. Once the F-16's ITR and onset rate is fixed (hopefully soon, devs?), the F-16 should become the overall best dogfighter of the teen series that it also is in real life.

The real life EM charts for both aircraft for starters.

The DCS F-16's sustained rate/load factor is close to real life figures, however instantanous rate/load factor is too low, as is the time needed to reach it (G onset rate). When these things are fixed the F-16 will be a lot more impressive in dogfights.

No. At the speeds where the F-14 beats the F-16 in turn rate in RL (& DCS) there is no risk of overstressing the airframe. (Infact overstressing the F-14's airframe would in general take you well above 9 G's) The reason the F-14 (amongst others) is generally having a field day with the F-16 in DCS is mainly due to the DCS F-16 underperforming in ITR and onset rate, PLUS the fact that most people don't understand how to fight in the vertical.

If the fight is kept horizontal, yes.

Well there are issues with the F-16's FM atm, suspected mainly to be related to how the pitch integrator is modelled, which results in a lack of G onset/pitch rate and available G. I've now talked to several F-16 pilots who comment that [with sufficient speed] a quick full aft stick command will result in the aircraft overshooting the 9 G limit due to the high onset rate the real aircraft is capable of, hitting figures as high as 10 G's before the FLCS slowly brings it back down to 9.0-9.3 G. This is esp. true for a cleaned up aircraft they say.

omg... In post #6 you claimed the following: Which is just flat out wrong.

+1 OP Please look into this ED, as it's a similar issue which is affecting ITR.