RvEYoda

LEAVU does not run with default export.lua. LEAVU needs a specific export.lua Add export.lua to integrity checks on server and no lua mods can run on clients

Case that is an old comment which is no longer valid, since both global functions LoGetWorldObjects() and LogetObjectById() are not used by leavu/ERI. I have however written my own LoGetObjectById which gathers data from an internal state which I populate using the LUA radar export. please tell me where in the code this comment is so I can remove it What is current and valid is posted in the LEAVU thread

Dreaming of reality then. Datalinks are nothing magical or rare, or not even a new invention. However why it may feel so can be that some of the not-ancient military applications are being declassified Some of the first missiles launched were command/data controlled, like Vietnam Sa2 Sams. old F106 US interceptor had targeting datalinks. In the Su27 ground crew can steer your radar and designate targets for you. These are just examples of primitive dlink implementations.

Actually im tryingt o say all F-15s had some form of datalink, but only some had the modern variant. So LEAVU models an older type. "Can we somehow "discriminate" F-15C slots from every other flyable aircraft slots in the mission? " - yes, but is is not practical. The server must enforce a specific Export.lua that is used by all players. They must install it before being allowed to join the server, and it doesnt make that much sense. Still it is good for events or specialized servers, but not airquake servers ( The avg Joe will wonder why he cannot join with his standard installation ). This way only F-15s get taht datalink ( assuming we want to limit it to F-15s ) I could write some software like "export-swapper" that allows you to have a set of export.lua files. One is the default one , one a modded one, one a modded one with strict AC control, and one something else. Because it is tiring to go copy paste files each time you want to join a new server, it would be better if it was automated. But it is also not a very good idea since it would need to replace hyperlobby... For example you can make a server hosting software where each server reports what mods are installed. Then when you click join it says "could not activate mod X on yoru system. Have you installed it? Get it at www.blablabla.com". I have asked for a possibility to export ingame server browser list of servers to an external software that could enable this. Unfortunately I am doubtful such a thing holds priority

Strange. You say that you can access LoGetObjectById and LoGetWorldObjects from outside export.lua? I have tried it before and i did not succeed. This works for you ?

well u use it in falcon4 :P

it can . LEAVU 2 has a primitive OpenGL engine. I can draw all basic shapes that OpenGL can. I have made all my shapes out of lines, triangles, boxes etc. It can quite easily be made to make a HUD :) ( it could potentially also draw HW accellerated 3d ;), i did that for fun when starting development )

Thanks for that analysis Grimes :). This is probably the kind of stuff we need.

I was always wondering what I was going to do when I got back to Sweden. something like this above the game screen : Maybe this to the right of it

Good post pilotasso. Fully agree with this . This is how we ran the modded missions on the rve server, although in Fc1.12 the amraam doesnt do very much, but still this kind of balance is lots of fun. I remember when i flew the 29A in there and scored a kill on an f-15. Made me feel really good, having accomplished something. however I did get shot down most of the time

I think it is a good idea, but it needs a bit more detail. For example some of us want to put up RWRs and Radar displays on separate monitors. In this case it can be useful to have lua export the actual graphics texture. ( Right now I build my own ). This would allow servers to configure dlink-noDlink while at the same time allow players to have Radar on a separate monitor. DCS has built in texture export function, so... maybe we can get lucky? :) Now if we got get a texture IMPORT function,... That would be completely awesome, as I then could render my MFD graphics to the ingame mfd position...

I hope this poll results in at least 50% on realism's side. Looks good so far :thumbup:

Well you said it best your self. This claim is ridiculous :). Who said there was realism balance to begin with. The Ru birds are far more accurately modelled. Why? I dont blame them. From what Ive heard the 15 was a late addition to lo in the first place, cause some company wanted a more interested western market. The only balance that existed before is the player's own interpretation of how the game is to be played. This is up to every player for himself to decide, not you, not ED. The inventor of Chess was hardly its master. You may have whatever opinion you wish on the matter but dont say everyone must think like you do, cause they dont. "One aircraft can't have uber realistic features were another doesn't this is the imbalance." - you cant be very happy with FC2 then since you can fly on servers together with BS. Why so closed minded? Why not learn from mistakes and strengths of all games instead of turning a blind eye to something like falcon? It is today's most high fidelity sim of fighter a2a combat. Claiming different then I dont think you understand it. Sure it has flaws, and this is exactly my point. Dont ignore 100% of a subject if 10-20% is wrong. Learn from all of it. Learn from those you dont like, learn from those you like. Connect the dots and make your own picture. This is also the entire deal with "bananas are yellow". Don't quit eating bananas just because you hate the color yellow, or ... "stick to the subject"...same thing really I must say your nuclear parallell is awesome :). I havent laughed so hard in a long time. I dont make LEAVU for the sake of realism..i make it for fun. More realism is just a side effect. Reality is the reference from where we gather things that make the game more fun. There is no fun in harrassing players until they leave servers imo. It is actually possible to make this nuke mod you are talking about if you wanted to know ;) But I want to play a game where I can have as much immersion/competitiveness/consistency as possible. A framework for extracting instruments so I can touch them myself on separate screens is for me a great step in the right direction, especially if they are interactive. Datalink is a feature most fighters have had for quite some time, and something id love to fly with, and ive had it in lockon for my eagle with LEAVU 1.0 a long time, together with many others and LEAVU 1 was also released in public. Weve had loads of fun in coops and online like tis. It is only fair to try to implement such features as close to the original as we are able to. Oh, and btw. I repeat myself again. LEAVU2 has nothing to do with F-15. There is a module for LEAVU that displays F-15 instruments on separate screens, like touch buddy. If you want to make a module for su27, fine, do it. The datalink is the same. It can run regardless. The datalink has nothing to do with the graphics. The used instrument module decides what datalink information should be used or not.

You have your opinion of realism, but don't presume everyone else's is the same. Some systems are very underpowered, while some could be overpowered. Also don't just base judgement on "Discovery Gulf war dogfights". Do you think they would make a TV show on people who got their kills on their first shot? They of course pick the exceptional occurrences. Or maybe we should ways "Fox 2, splash", which could be a very large part of the time in the show :). Some missiles are surprisingly lethal if deployed correctly irl. I think the British achieved something like 0.8 Pk with their Aim9Ls (predecessor to 9m) against Argentina. Some choices can also be for fun. Who wants to play a game where half the systems go down every other flight :). Allied Force has one way of doing it, they impose probabilistic failure rates on almost everything, missile seekers, engines, etc. You could have a missile fired going straight for the ground etc. I dont know the percentages but they probably match RL quite good. Personally I find such features mostly irritating. But I can see how some could find them realistic. However as a whole, adding such features to lockon for just some of the systems, at this point, would imo just feel wierd. I understand ur opinion but I dont agree that it would be a reasonable change to lockon at this point. IMO It's basically like this. Most systems are highly classified, so we can only get data on them with maybe 10-30 % accuracy ( and that is very good data! ) . Then introducing a random factor event of 5% on these 10-30% would be utterly pointless imo, but thats just me.

yes they cannot access anything This is because as soon as they edit the default export.lua, the server wont let them in. To access any data whatsoever through lua you must edit export.lua. it works like this. When you start a lockon game, the file export.lua in your config/export/ will be read. Here you can put custom code before launching a mission. It can be anything from data export to radar automization ( i use both ). You can also use it to for example code autopilots. ( I wrote an autopilot for FC2 beta to verify that the flight performance of aircraft was the same in the game as it is in the aircraft manuals ). This is the only file that has access to input-output functions from lockon. If you edit other files they still cannot access ingame data, self data or others data. Adding this file to the list of "checksummed" files on the server prevents the clients with custom export.lua files to connect to the server. Simple as that :) This is part of built in optional security features in BS and FC2

in lockon the Ru dlink isnt displayed in HUD is it? i was sure dlink in lockon for ru planes was displayed in the mfd-like display on the right? You could make such a page and/or mfd/display in leavu. Like before, yes, this is all the security we could possibly do. We can put restrictions like " if you are this plane, you can use these instruments ", but someone can edit the restrictions or intercept the message from lockon saying "im this" and add his own informaion to it, and then pouf back to 0 again.

Yes GG just got that info that like Black Shark, in FC2 the server can tell clients to do checksums on installed files. If so just add export.lua to the checked files list on the game server, and it cannot be modified on clients ( or more correctly, they cant connect ).

Can you draw an hsd US style on your computer, yes in mspaint. I cannot stop this, it is ultimately the same wiht LEAUV, touch buddy and software - let me explain : I can put in a test in LEAVU which does "if not flying US aircraft, dont draw F-15 instruments". But, what is to stop someone with programming knowledge to change this? Maybe It stops 95% of people from doing it, but is it enough? You dont need leavu to do this. But sure I can put in such a control. I'm just saying there is no foolproof way to protect yourself from it with lockon's lua export. If you remove LEAVU you can still install TB and do the same. Or some other software. What would you consider enough anti cheat here? This isn't a flaw in LEAVU but a general result of the lua script interface. you can tell your application anything you want, like "im an F22" should you want to. I can make the standard version of the lua say "Im the correct plane ...." but if someone changes it we're back to square 1 again

LEAVU allows Dlink for F-15 in a mostly realistic fashion = Good LEAVU allows Dlink of western style for Russian jets = partially wrong, since it can also be used to display russian style MFDs and instruments. ( same as touch buddy ) LEAVU at this stage cannot be controlled by server = wrong, read above. LUA can be turned off entirely There is no way to tell if someone is mis-using LEAVU = Argument can be applied to anything LEAVU has nothing to do with just F-15. I chose to draw cockpit instruments for F-15 but if you want to make other aircraft LEAVU instruments that is fine, and I encourage it. Just same as touch buddy Hehe, funny how some think that "target datalink" is unrealistic, since that was among the first types of datalink IRL ever made :P. Weapons and weapon systems got targeting data information.

Ok so problems solved then : Server admins can if they wish disable all client side lua exports. This is quite cool. We can have 1980-2000+ hi tech servers with dlink and stuff, and we can have old school servers where you make do with classic equipment with dlink failure. Exciting :) I guess like before there will always be groups who prefer one or the other. We can have some cool dlink event where RED side use the built in dlink and BLUE use leavu dlink.

LEAVU is prob about 2 wks of full time work into development at this point, and I dont expect the F-15 module for leavu to be finished any time soon. It is very much a work in progress. I spend as much time as I can on it. ( it is currently i think around a few thousand lines of code ) The Datalink features etc are all subject to change at any point. This thread is meant to inform of the project, gather information and feedback for improvements/changes. Currently the datalink is a very primitive network host. It just passes messages along, and there are no limitations at this point. It would be good if you have some idea of what limitations you would like to see, you could post them here and I'll see if it is possible to implement them. Everything is of course a tradeoff. We could find infinite number of limitations in any system, so we must find a level of realism and modelling that we as developers are happy with and is reasonable to implement ( for example if one limitation takes 2 mths and the project total is 3 mths, then that limitation makes no sense to implement ). For example a range limitation on datalink is pretty easy to implement, but : Does it makes sense to implement it ? Older type data link is likely just coded radio transmissions. These prob have enough reach to cover a large area of the lockon world. Also how to implement range limitation ? Lets take the following example : The datalink is shared by 3 clients C1, C2 and C3 C1 transmits "hello, my pos is ...." the datalink host server gets the msg and sees that C2 is not in range but C3 is, so C3 gets the message. Then the dlink host program checks, is C2 in range of C3? if so then the signal gets through anyway because it is relayed. We could have the same potentially for LOS. If Moa has time to finish the LOS calculation, we can do the same here C3 transmits "Hello here i am.." datalink host server gets the message checks if C2 has LOS from C3. let's say he does. Ok now Dlink server checks if C1 has LOS from C3. Let's say he doesn't Then dlink server checks if C1 has LOS from C3, lets say he does. This means this message is relayed and goes to all players. Does this sound like a good idea to you? Personally i think LOS and range checks are overkill, especially since modern dlinks probably relay through almost everything incl satellite. Also keep in mind there is no LOS check for the LOFC russian fighter dlink, which sees much more than a LEAVU Flight Data Link. However I'll try to implement LOS checks since there seems to be large public interest.

Well there is some information i wrote in the first post of this thread. Essentially the dlink equivalent the F15 used before the more modern ones is very hush hush, and for the sake of not going "overkill" i chose to model an older type dlink. Because it being classified we chose the next best thing which is available to us, basically the F-16 MLU manual(s). This is a reasonable approach imo, and the opinion of F-15 crew I spoke to. I will not reveal any names as they wish to remain anonymous. For those who think I'm lying to you and just making excuses, that is your choice. This is what we got, and this is what we're making out of it. I think i can show you the MLU manual if you have time some day. TS? I tried my best to replicate all shapes of the dlink icons as described in the manual.

I wrote "chat" server. not "cheat" server...

Yes, LEAVU can only export what you see in your cockpit. This information is shared with other people over the Datalink Server. The Datalink server is a separate software that has nothing to do with lockon or anything else, could be used as a chat server if you wanted to :P

Neg Grimes. LEAVU is nto a mod for a specific aircraft. LEAVU is a software to develop external avionics panels, like touch buddy. I started by making instruments for F-15, more specifically something MFD-like. Althrough it is designed primarily for F-15 ( and possible A-10 ), you could (at this point at least) still use it for any AC, although it would look quite strange.