bradmick

I've heard some stories about just how truly survivable this bird is. Sure, she may seem all finesse and weak, but when it comes down to it from talking to guys in theater...she'll bring you home every time. Sure she doesn't have the armor of a hind, but she has way better performance because she's not wickedly weighed down with a bazillion (exhageration) tons of armor. Was talking to some of our guys who've actually gotten to fly hinds as Op For, and they say while the Hind is a wicked piece of hardware, it is a pain to get off the ground because of all the armor its got, way overloaded. Lots of rolling take offs as a minimum. But, I suppose that goes for any helo operating in that general part of the world. Everyone planned for a conventional European war in normal temperature ranges, not running around in the worst possible place on earth for a Turbine engine. I really don't worry that the clear panels on my bird don't provide much in the way of protection, because 9 times out of 10 i'm going to be able to pick off my targets from altitude with ease and not have to worry about them nailing me with small arms. My thoughts anyway. Brad

Could be debris as well, FOD (foreign object debris) checks are a marvelous time of scouring the airfield for anything significant enough that can damage the airplane. Fun is had by all when its FOD clean up day. Brad

Hot Start is a bad thing. It means you've allowed the engine to exceed its maximums and proverbially 'cook itself'. Yeah, it does sound like there was something that caused the engine to flame out, and then spark again. If the engine was running, and temporarily caused to flame out, but fuel was still being dumped into the hot section (coincedentally we don't put the rocket pods on the inboard pylons because it runs the risk of flaming out or stalling the engines) then all of that fuel would immediately combust and that'd make for a bad day. Overspeed, long thing of flame out the engine, etc..etc. Definately a bad day. Brad

Not really, a Hot Start is pretty much solidly related to starting the engine. Its a condition where in either to much fuel is introduced at once with insufficient cooling air in the engine, an engine that has been operated and has a high temperature to begin with (hence minimum temperatures prior to starting an engine). For example, the AH-64A's 701 engine has a maximum temperature of 965, but it has a start limit of 867. If it becomes apparent as per the chapter 8 checklist procedures that TGT will exceed this number prior to the engine reaching its idle speed, you are to abort the start. To do this, you retard the power lever of the effected engine to off, and turn the fuel switch of the affected engine off and motor the starter until its below 540 degrees if there is further evidence of combustion. After this you can attempt the start again after you've motored the starter a little more so that its below 150 degrees. If you attempt a start above this temperature, then odds are the temperature in the engine will exceed both 867 and the max of 965, which will cause the engine to melt (possibly). Brad bah...had to correct my EP's, I know the Deltas by heart, the Alphas not the same.

I just realized I missed a question. The Alternate sensor bearing lets the pilot/cpg know where the PNVS or TADS system is looking relative to the helicopters center line. Brad

probably should have clarified. There is Flight symbology, which is broken down into four sub categories, which I covered previously, then there is weapons symbology which I haven't govered. I only left on the images what was relevant to each symbology set. The CPG will have the exact same symbology as the pilot, as the sets are linked. If the CPG clicks onto Hover, the Pilot will have hover symbology, if the Pilot switches to Cruise, the CPG will have Cruise symbology. Weapons are fairly straight forward, as depending on what you have WASd that's what will appear in the symbology. Brad

So a little more on these sets. For those wondering where these would be used. Hover symbology is pretty self-explanatory. It's the symbology set you use while hovering. The velocity vector tells you which direction you're drifting and how much. Using the image we can see that the aircraft displayed is hovering forward and to the right at about 3 knots. How do we know this? Because the Velocity vector saturates (reaches the bottom of the heading tape, well more specifically the line below the luber line) at 6 kts ground speed. Further interpretation tells us that in a few seconds the aircraft will actually be hovering a little less right and little faster, about one knot. How can we tell this? By looking at the acceleration cue. The acceleration cue can be likened to the cyclics position. It can really throw one off when first trying to learn to hover the Apache. You start chasing the cue before you have a feel for the aircraft and bad news befalls you. The aircraft is hovering at about 98% torque at 100 ft off the ground. Bob-Up symbology is handy for if you're in a battle position or wanting to keep yourself over one spot while in an OGE hover. The hover box, which is in the lower left hand corner is an approximately 8 foot box which is planted on the ground when you switch over to hover symbology. When it is fully displaced, you have moved 48 feet from your postion. In the image, the aircraft is forward and right, to get back to the original position, you'll want to hover back and left. The acceleration cue is indicating however that the aircraft is going to be continuing hovering away from the hover box. This is handy, as I said before, if you're in a battle position. You can hover laterally, un-mask and then re-mask and hover back to your original position. Or if you're in a confined area and need the accuracy. Another use for it is say you're coming into a confined area and want to clear yourself into it this is what you do: 1) when the obstacle is under your butt you go into bob up mode, continue flying forward, knowing it displaces at 48 feet when its fully displaced to the bottom of the symbology your aircraft should be cleared to the rear. Transition symbology is useful when transitioning into forward flight. The velocity vector displaces at 60 knots and you also gain the artificial horizon. It gives you a good idea of ground track as well. If the velocity vector is centered, that's where you're going. Cruise symbology is pretty self explanatory I think. It gives you all the information you need in order to fly the aircraft without having to bring your attention inside the cockpit. Apologies for the sporadic updates, spending the day with the girlfriend. Brad

The only thing i'm not 100% on is whether or not the Command Heading Index is displayed in the Transition mode. I'll have to consult with my dad, as he flew the Alphas for a long time before switching over to Longbow. Brad

Actually, for those without the -10, heres the key: 1 LOS Reticle Represents the line-of-sight of the crew member selected sight. The reticle will flash whenever the selected sight LOS is invalid or has failed. The reticle will also flash whenever the ‘‘ACTIONED’’ weapon is in a NO-GO state. The High Action Display will prompt the crewmember for the appropriate condition. 2 Alternate Sensor Bearing Indicates to the crewmember the other crewmember sensor relative bearing with respect to helicopter center line. 3 Lubber Line Index indicates helicopter magnetic heading. 4 Cueing Dots Indicates cued direction for target acquisition. All four dots present and flashing indicate IHADSS boresight is required. 5 Command Heading Indicates heading to fly to next navigation waypoint designated by the doppler navigation system if bob-up mode of the flight symbology is not selected. Indicates fixed heading reference when bob-up mode is selected. 6 Acceleration Cue A vectorial representation of the helicopter longitudinal and lateral acceleration; the display origin is normally the end of the velocity vector. In the hover and bob-up modes, when the velocity vector exceeds its maximum scale, the display origin changes to the center of the LOS reticle. The Acceleration Cue will flash when the HARS inertial platform has gone into free inertial mode, usually as a result of the LDNS going into memory. 7 Velocity Vector A vectorial representation of the helicopter longitudinal and lateral ground velocities; in hover mode, maximum scale is 6 knots groundspeed; in transition mode 60 knots groundspeed. The velocity vector will flash when the HARS inertial platform has gone into the free inertial mode if MUX switch is in SEC. 8 Heading Scale Helicopter magnetic heading scale. 9 Cued LOS Reticle A virtual reticle indicating the cued LOS to the appropriate crew member. Used with the cueing dots. 10 Missile Constraints Indicates the required orientation to align the helicopter into constraints for Hellfire missile engagements. When all constraints for the mode of engagement are satisfied, the box will go from ‘dashed’ to ‘solid’. 11 Radar Altitude A digital display of radar altitude. Displays in 1-foot increments to 50 feet and in 10-foot increments above 50 feet. 12 Rate of Climb An analog display of rate of climb moving along the left side of the vertical scale. Tick marks designate 500 and 1000 fpm rates of climb or descent. 13 Radar Altitude Vertical Scale A vertical scale for the analog display of radar altitude. Tick marks designate 10-foot increments from 0 to 50-feet, and 50-foot increments from 50 to 200 feet. The scale is blanked when radar altitude is greater than 200 feet. 14 Radar Altitude Vertical Tape An analog display of radar altitude moving within the vertical scale; also blanked above 200 feet. 15 Skid/Slip Lubber Lines Represent the limits for ‘ball centered’ flight. 16 Skid/Slip Ball Indicates the amount of skid or slip the helicopter is experiencing. 17 Cued LOS DOT Indicates the cued LOS location within the field of regard. The cued LOS DOT will flash when the HARS inertial platform has gone into the free inertial mode. 18 Field of View Represents the instantaneous FOV of the crewmember sensor within the field of regard. 19 Sensor Field of Regard Represents the total gimbal limits possible for the respective crew member sensor. 20 High Action Display Refer to paragraph 4.28. 21 Rocket Steering Cursor Indicates the required orientation to align the helicopter into constraints for 2.75 inch FFAR rocket engagements. During fixed or flight stow rocket delivery, a broken I beam will appear. 22 Hover Position Box Displays helicopter relative position when bob-up mode is selected and represents an 8 foot square. Maximum displacement is 48 feet laterally or longitudinally. The Hover Position Box drifts while in a stationary hover. A drift of 6 feet the first minute is possible, and as much as 23 feet after 5 minutes when using EGI with GPS keyed tracking 4 or more satellites. If these conditions are not met, a drift of 21 feet per minute is possible. 23 Head Tracker Indicates the pilot head position relative to the center line of the helicopter. This is a virtual symbol whose range of display is 30 degrees vertically and 40 degrees horizontally about the nose of the helicopter. When CPG selects PLT/GND ORIDE and SIGHT SEL NVS, this symbol indicates his head position. 24 Airspeed A digital display of true airspeed when the ADSS is turned on or not failed. If the ADSS is OFF or failed, display is ground speed in knots from the doppler navigation system. Range is 0 to 200, omnidirectional. 25 Horizon Line Indicates pitch and roll attitude of the helicopter. 26 Engine Torque Indicates the engine torque output by the engines. The magnitude is the larger of the two engine torque values. If a greater than 12% torque split occurs between engines, the displayed torque value will flash. At an engine torque value of 98% or higher, a box around the torque value flashes to indicate an impending engine torque limit. Symbolic torque value maximum is 120%.

So, reading through the Alphas -10, I was looking at the symbology description in Chapter 4 (lots different than it is in the Delta I must say) and was thinking, this has got to be a bit confusing. It talks about there being four modes and shows all four of them in the figure it says to reference. So I figured i'd break it down into what you would actually see in each symbology mode. This requires you have the -10 to know what each symbol is, but it breaks each picture breaks down what you'll see when you select that as your symbology. If you've any questions, ask away! Brad

Hmm...yeah, I'm still trying to figure out just how much I can really talk about the Deltas. I definately know that if I were to sit down with the Alphas -10, and the Alphas ATM, I could walk all you through the start up and how to go through performance planning, etc..etc. I don't know how the rest of the world, but for us yanks, Performance Planning is our bread and butter. We don't fly without having as exact an idea of what to expect when we go to pick up the airplane and fly. Since the -10 I posted a link to has all the PP charts, that makes it even easier. Anyone who's interested, I can run through that. And also, looking through the Black Shark video, I can definately say the Alpha is the better choice as its contemporary. Brad

Jackpot. Here go! http://www.tpub.com/content/ahapache/TM-1-1520-238-10/index.htm The AH-64A -10 was apparently released and allowed to be released to the public. A lot is the same, minus the stuff on the MPD's. There are definations of the symbology sets. Brad

Nah, the helicopter flies itself a hell of a lot better than I do, it's designed to do that :) heheh. Brad

Well, part of the problem with the Friendly Fire incident (that was my dads first unit out of Flight School actually, Col. Hayle (sp?) with the Big Red One, he was a Gunfighter, 2-1 I believe it was (been over 16 years)) was the aircraft didn't have all the neat-o little navigation gadgets it has now. It was really easy to get disoriented, particularly in the desert. What do you have to navigate off of other than shifting sand dunes. As far as the symbology goes, it depends on what mode you're in what is displayed. The one that sundowner posted is the Transition symbology. You've got the velocity vector, velocity cue, LOS reticle, heading tape, articicial horizon, ivsi, airspeed, torque trim ball, and HAD. Brad

oh, rog. I meant more for instead of 3 positions, just the 2. Sorry about that. Brad

well, the only person that would fly with it off is the CPG. The pilot ALWAYS flies with it on, the ability to move it off to the side is incase it were to fail, which would require the pilot having to transfer his view inside. The symbology, and all its many areas are the only real means for the pilot to know what the aircraft is doing in flight. Brad

I can give a little insight into this. When I go to do the boresight, its left eye closed looking down the BRU with my right eye and the LOS reticle lined up on the BRU. When I boresight, from my understanding, slaves the gun to my eye which is in refernce to the ADL of the aircraft. Now, making the player boresight might be a little much, it'd be easier just to have the game go 'okay, point the gun where the LOS reticle is pointing. Believe me, a good run up takes about 30 to 45 minutes, to include all the insanity that is the checklist...forcing a player to have to do all that stuff, ouch...just...ouch. heheh Brad

Alrighty, so while I was flying today I tried to pay a bit more attention to the HDU and its location and how the symbology was displayed in my field of view. I'm not on my computer, so I can't post an updated pic, but suffice it to say the combinger lens should be a lot larger, should actually encompass a good portion of the shot. When looking out, I did notice that if I looked straight ahead, the LOS reticle was largely centered with the centerline of the aircraft, a little offset and to the right, but for the most part centered. So, here's what i'm thinking. Increase the size of the HDU in the shot, so that you can still see it, and have it so it allows for the symbology to be in the center of the players vision. This way, there is an accurate portrayal of the Apache HDU. I think it would actually look really awesome. And it shouldn't be to obtrusive. I honestly don't notice the HDU as being there unless I bring my eye to focus, so it should also be slightly blurred out. That would be a pretty acceptable and true represenation of it. And of course, if the player doesn't want it down, have a hot key command to move the HDU out of the way. But, I got what Sundowner was talking about when I really looked at what I was seeing and how it was coming together in my field of vision. I'll work on putting together a new example when I get home later today. Brad

Really is a georgeous bird. This pic is by far my favorite :) (me and the ol' man, i'm in the pilots seat, hes in the CPG seat) from Run-Up day. Brad

It might be because i'm not looking at the symbology directly either. I'm looking out and past it, focusing on my visual markers. To me, it's very noticably not in the center of my vision, which is why the little example to me is as close an approximation as you can get. Brad

well, from experience I know that the only time the HDU is on the centerline of the aircraft is when you boresight. When i look straight ahead, the symbology isn't centered in my vision. Now, sure, in the simulated world, it's probably a little disconcerting to the player to effectively have to look at two different parts of the screen to find out whats going on, but if you want an accurate portrayal of the IHADSS thats the best way of going about it. It's really (to me) no different than having to look inside the cockpit at the instruments. Whenever the player uses his thumbswitch on the joystick, the HDU would move with the camera, so that whenever they put the target in the center of the reticle, they could fire and have a 100% assurance of hitting the target. the gun would have to be tweaked in the game obviously. It's definately do-able.

not true, because that's how we fly it in the actual aircraft. It is offset when flying. The aircraft knows this as well, and when you boresight the IHADSS the computer on board says 'okay, his head is here'. The symbology isn't useless at all, I mean, if i look left, i still know that the aircraft is straight and level because the horizon line tells me so. For weapons purposes, the computer also knows this, and it is taken care of during the boresight as well. wherever you aim your eye (read: the actual center of the symbology set there) thats where the gun is aimed too. Its also where the PNVS and TADS systems point as well. Brad

Apologies for the really crappy example, don't have a lot of time before I have to get to academics, but I figured i'd whip this up. The background is from FSX, and the HDU I quick threw together in LightWave. Basically, thats how I see the best way of representing it. The HDU will be situated at about where it would be over the right eye, also i'd imagine with a button push the HDU could be moved to the side. So, yeah. Crappy example, but the best way I could see it happening. Now, obviously at night, the left part of the screen would be normal, the combiner lens would have the NVS systems display on it. Brad

Yup, the Apache (longbow and alpha) both have torque gauges. It's in both the symbology of the HDU and on one of the MPD pages. The apache also has electronic engine controls. Brad

Howdy! Interesting thread. My first thoughts are, please, please, please don't reference that goofy movie Firebirds, heheh. That movie is an embarassment to all Apache pilots (particularly the eye dominance thing...it's pretty bogus in real life) ;) lol. My dad was actually there when they filmed the movie, the real pilots hated it. But, enough on that. My limited experience in the Apache (tuesday was my very first flight) and experience with the IHADDS in the sim and the actual aircraft honestly lead me to think that the way most sims have done the IHADDS picture is probably the best way. Why do I say this? The main reason is that it'd be really, really complicated to simulate a two eye deal on screen. When you're flying days all you have in the lens is symbology, you don't fly with the PNVS or TADS screen so you look out and see the normal world, you're left eye is clear to see the MPDs and whatever else. Now, when its dark, you'd have one eye looking out normal, and a big green blob on the other. It'd be pretty disconcerting for the player i'd say to have this big disconnect in looking outside. In the sight, you don't see any of the cockpit because you're looking through a turret thats about a foot or so in front of you, while your other eye is free to look inside at the MPD pages. Pretty crazy overall. Now, I suppose what could be done is this, and this is the complicated part. What would need to be done is have the HDU modeled and placed at about the point where the 'players' right eye is. The Combiner lens would be situated at the proper spot and have all the symbology displayed there. It'd only be inside the combiner lens, so the player is free to look outside with the 'good eye' and get his symbology data with the other. This would again be a little disconcerting when you go to nights, because you're 'left' eye would be able to look inside the cockpit, so if you looked down and left, you see inside on one part of the screen and see outside on the right side. I dunno how well that would translate though. Not to say it can't be done, but very disconcerting and maybe a little to much. Brad