Alex_rcpilot

Cool, I like the knobs.:thumbup:

Yea, I understand your circumstances. In that case dimensions would be the only thing that matters. Most tactiles sound the same and feel the same though. I didn't find configurable rotary switches at the store, so I bought this one online. I searched through dozens of dealers but didn't find 45deg. models. The strange thing about this is I usually randomly run into a manufacturer when I look for connectors. While when I deliberately try to find a manufacturer for rotary switches, I can't seem to find any. Guess I just need to keep searching. Another thing that pisses me off is that later in the day, the guy who sold me the rockers online came up to me on the messenger and apologized for his mistake - the momentary model isn't a totally different fat-*ss rocker, not the slim long model we were talking about. So I told him to ship a few of each model, and we're back to the modification topic. Talk about that later.

Good thinking. Building a cap to put on top of two individual buttons would work as well. And it's supper thin. :thumbup:

oops, I visit component stores so often that I've almost taken them for granted. Just realized that I've never chosen a tactile from a catalog.:doh: Well, basically I care about three things when it comes to tactiles: a). Dimension, which you may get a better impression from a catalog rather than an actual sample; b). The way it feels to press it. You learn that only when you put your finger on it; c). Lifespan. Catalogs might reflect bits of information on this issue. If you happen to know a good manufacturer which also showed up on the catalog, it would probably be the choice. And sometimes price also tells a story. More expensive parts tend to last longer, but I don't count on this trend all the time. Sometimes I just follow a hunch.:music_whistling:

Did you mean PCB mount? I know the major concern here isn't how the pins go the board, but how far they stand off the mounting surface. The rocker is way too thick to be kept on the same level with tactiles on both ends at the same time. I'd cut a hole in the PCB for the entire rocker switch body to rest in. Got some even better news now - I ordered 6 samples of those rockers with MOMENTARY contacts. That was pure luck. When I asked the dealer whether he had something like that, I actually didn't expect him to say 'yes'. But what the hell.....the rocker is made in Taiwan, and the dealer is from Shanghai. It takes 2 or 3 days for the package to reach me. I'll show you some pictures when I get it. By the way, I've bought some rotary switches like you showed me. Configurable 12 positions, 30 degrees incremental. Had no luck finding 45 degree type. I'm thinking, some of the rotary swiches look like they had much wider spacing between marks. Could you confirm it? If a switch has 90 or 120 degree interval, it might be possible to make it out of the 45 or 30 degree models, by filling up a couple of notches agains the steal balls inside the casing. I've taken one of those apart and examined it. It should be feasible.

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean to false imply what you didn't say. Initially I thought the difficulties were all about how hard it was to perfect the looks and whatever. But actually I should have just said "I totally agree with you". :)

Yes, but I still need to get some momentary rockers at the wrong size, tear one apart and figure out how they did it. Then I will have a reference for how to modify latched ones.:) *Edit: Will this one make a good candidate? It doesn't say anything about the button lenght, but looks like 20mm. It's certainly narrow, just 8mm wide. How do you feel about the 28x10.7 installation cutoff? It's the closest 3-way rocker I can find.:music_whistling:

Here's a picture of the pitch black rocker. There was watermark all over, so I removed the crap, and kept the manufacturer logo beneath. *Update: There's a rocker switch called KCD3-111, which I can buy in small quantities from other dealers. I'm gonna place the order tomorrow. Here's a picture of it below, and the inner rocker dimension is unkown. Outter frame dimension is 21.0 x 14.8mm, and installation cutoff dimension 19.1 x 13.1mm. The rocker looks like 16x9mm to me.

No problem, Shawn. I just came up with a search result showing a rocker almost exactly as we need it. 3-way ON-OFF-ON, momentary on both ends. Three problems: A. It's 21x15, not 20x9; B. It's black all over, backlighting may become an issue; C. Guy sells those in a 100PCS batch. Not expensive though, just pointless keeping them on the shelf. Anyway, I'll keep an eye on any possible solution.

Is it 3-way or 2-way? A 3-way momentary switch stays in the neutral postion and goes either way when you press it. I'll buy a couple of rockers next time I hit the store, disregarding the dimensions and just trying to figure out a way to modify.

Well, there goes three good reasons to mind about the VP solution. :thumbup: That's why I said "if you don't mind" in the quote. Not everybody is planning to build a perfect replica of the real thing. So it depends. My personal flavor would be building physical gauges with 3D-printing technology and some resin casting. I'm in contact with a company which prints 3D prototypes. Here's some demonstrations of their work: Initially the models are made out of composite powder sticking together. When the prototyping process is complete, the model is dipped inside a chemical which then drys up and provides extra strength and integrity. For decorating parts which don't bare any mechanical load or come in contact with abrasion from fingers....etc., 3D printed prototypes may be used directly. And for other parts which require certain degree of strength. A mold can be made with one of these things, and then used to cast identical structures with resin. Transmission parts like gears in various dimensions can be made this way. If you make them thick and use lubricant, they could last long enough just like ordinary nylon gears. I think you guys may find similar companies worldwide. There's also a RepRap Mendal project on Wikipedia. Whether you'd go with this solution or not, it's an option.:)

I believe A-10C virtual panel will be out soon after the add-on is released. So if you don't mind using an LCD behind a piece of plywood, you don't need to get worried.

Well, if you bought a real ADI for less than 100 bucks in the first place, I guess you might end up with a cheaper solution. Not sure about the simplicity coz I never had the pleasure to come across one. A ground crew told me even a damaged backup ADI on a B737 would still worth as much as a BMW, or at least a Volkswagen?:music_whistling:

Came back with a question: I don't know whether all the toggles are reported as distinct inputs as they look. I remember back in the day, there were complaints about two way or even three way toggles which are only mapped as single control items in the cockpit. That means when someone connects a toggle to the I/O card, it may generate 2 or 3 different button events, but they need to be merged into one control event to operate the corresponding toggle in game. Has anyone got an idea if that will happen to A-10C? So far, my card doesn't merge inputs at all, and I don't wish to add this capability coz it's overwhelming for the chip.

Well that's cool! I'm revising my code to support this kind of mixed-type toggle switch on my card.

Hi, does that mean part of the swich works like a toggle, and the rest works like push buttons? A toggle holds itself at a certain position, and only requires the IO card to generate a "one shot" button press event on the computer when you flip it. The one shot button press lasts for a certain period of time which is usually predetermined in the IO card firmware, and can't be changed by real-time manual operation. A push button will be reported as pressed on the PC as long as you hold it down, hence you can control how long you wanna hold it there.

I'll include that into my schematics, thanks sweinhart.

Yes, that's what I was talking about, and forgive me for wrong counts. That switch should be accounted for in my firmware. And I'd probably take it just this far. What's up next is waaaay ahead.:D

Oops, sorry guys. After all these days of messing with cards, I grew so concerned about how to implement something before thinking about where it's needed. :doh: Shawn has been really nice to share his A-10C information with us. So far, I'd say it's been straight forward for me to figure out how to make a card support the A-10C cockpit.:)

Hi Deadman. The only example available is the Ka-50 engine start selection switch which trigger had gone through some trouble to make. We certainly didn't see a second example of this in Ka-50 or A-10C, but since I'm a real amateur with airplanes, I'm not sure whether they're going to appear in later aircraft models. I hope toggle switches will stick to 3-way maximum, which makes things a lot easier. I'd also like to mention dial switches, as they appear quite similar with toggles to the IO cards. The only difference is probably the null position which only exists in 3-way toggles. I don't know how many ways at most a cockpit dial switch can have. I'm currently preparing a maximum of 16 resting positions for one dial.:music_whistling:

That's soooo true. Introducing a free and generic head tracking interface will be a mutual benefit for both game companies and game players in the long run. I presume currently what's holding us back is Natural Point patents? I've heard (can't confirm) that free track also takes advantage of Natural Point interface through reverse engineering. And that makes it illegal for anyone to build new hardware based on it.

No body wants them for no practical reason, dude. If I learn that it's not possible for the majority of cockpit builders to acquire sophisticated switches, then I won't embed the support for such components in my card in the first place. That will be a pretty reasonable balance between workload and versatility :)

Well, I'm not being cockpit-specific. I was talking about toggle switches though. It seems like the most sophisticated switch which I can find off the shelf is 3-way ones.:music_whistling:

Shawn, have you got ahold of any switch that has more than 3 resting positions? 3 way switches are basically all that I can find here. 3 or 6 contacts available, which means they're all ON-OFF-ON models.

Be careful with spraypaint fume now that you keep working with it so much, lol.