Gators

Gents, I tried to bring two differents real pilot explanation (one of them flew on the bird last week) with no success. I tried to bring a report that show the position of the button (in the check list the FBW Limiter have to be set before the engine start, so it is in the good position) with no success. Let's try an another way, with some calculation : On Page 96 of the manuel, we can see that the Pod 2, 5 and 8 can support 1 800 kg each (plane on the ground). This limit seems to be low but it is because when you put some load factor, the pod have to resist. Also, it does show that all the three Pod are the same. Let see what is the resistance limit for the Pod. The Kerosene's density is 0.8 kg/L. For the calculation, we will ignore the mass of the empty RPL and suppose that it is full of fuel to get the higher resistance limit. RPL-541 with the CHARGE position (limit 6g) with 2000L of Fuel: F = ( 2000 x 0.8 ) x 6 = 9 600 kg. On this config, the Pod can support a charge of 9 600 kg (each Pod 2 and 8 ) and even each wing of the plane support the charge. Let's do the same calculation with the Ventral Tank but in A/A position : RPL-522 with the A/A position (limit 9g) with 1300L of Fuel: F= ( 1300 x 0.8 ) x 9 = 9 360 Kg. So with the Ventral Fuel Tank full of fuel at 9g, the charge on the Pod 5 is 9 360kg, less than the Pod 2 and 8 on position CHARGE. As the three Pod are the same, there is no reason to lose the Ventral Fuel Tank at 9g with Fuel on it. What's more, if each wing can support the charge (9 600kg), the airframe of the plane can do it with no problem (9 360kg). These calculations show that the resistance of the Pod is not a problem These calculations show that the resistance of the airframe is not a problem Please, do not stay on your position or bring real evidence. Not a report that talks about another plane or some supposed knowledge. Gators

ok I am done with that, you right I am wrong! Your sources are right, mine are wrong or are lying. I do not bring info anymore, keep going this way, this is the good one ! Gators

Also, on this first generation of M2000C with M53-5, you only put 1700 Liters of fuel on external wing tank instead of the 2000 Liters that can support the tank for structural problem. You are using wrong documentation and you close your mind with it. Gators

Az, This report talks about M-2000-C and -B with M53-5 engine, so first generation aircraft with RDM not RDI. With the S4 standard, the plane has a more powerful engine M53-P2 and structural reinforcement. Gators

Hi everyone, First of all, I would like to say how much we think of you guys after the earthquake and take all the time you need with your family and friends. I have had a confirmation today, by a general of "l'Armée de l'Air" which is still flying on Mirage 2000C, that he flies with the FBW limiter on A/A position from the take off to the landing with a ventral tank. Full or empty,the ventral tank can support 9G. You guys can do whatever you want with that, but this is how they use the Mirage 2000C, and it has never changed from the beginning. Maybe for the -5 it is different, I do not know. @Jojo, have you a document, except the BEAD report, that shows something else ? Gators

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2624541&postcount=6 Jojo, no need to start new discussion about that. I know it was like that. You say it is like this. Let's understood why it has changed if it did instead of guessing and saying.

NO, FUEL OR NOT IN VENTRAL TANK = A/A. And I brought also BEAD to proved it.You see it isn't a solid argument :lol: but anyway this is not the choice made by RAZBAM. The real question is that it seems that procedure changed with years. Because the M2000C airframe needed to be preserved to be used and transformed for M2000-5. That's why to me config Fox is AA and for you it is only AA when ventral is empty. I am waiting a confirmation from "Armée de l'air" (hope for the 2 coming weeks) and if it is confirmed this one will be a real and solid argument. And one more time there is a huge difference between "not doing it because the plane cannot" and "not doing it because it could be nice to not doing it so that gonna be the procedure now etc...". And believe me, the plane flew years and years with full ventral tank and conf AA. Can you imagine that an Air to Air plane with the config "Combat Air Patrol" cannot engage a combat just because it has fuel in tank.... that doesn't make sense ! After all, if now this is how the plane is used and if this is how RAZBAM want to simulate it, that's fine, but I think is also good to cross all the information.

Hi all, Is there any way that ventral fuel tank doesn't go away at 8Gs ? I already said multiple time that the Air/Air conf is 2 magic + 2 530s + Ventral fuel tank. You guys even call this config "Combat Air Patrol". So with this config the FBW limiter should be on A/A and not on CHARGE. After many discussion, the choice was the conf light on before the ventral is empty on position A/A. I think it was a good compromise. But now, we can't even do combat with this config because at 8Gs the ventral tank goes away even if it is empty. And there is no way to engage a combat with the CHARGE position :music_whistling: Other thing, the 2000 can stay on brake without moving with 100% dry thrust. This is what french pilot do before "AB" and take off and it is also used during run up. Keep going you guys do wonderful work. Gators

+1 Az :) @+ Gators

Ok thanks at least one bug is reported :thumbup:, things are processing.

Hi, Please do not bring with you some "I guess so" or "I don't think so" without evidence.

Gents, In order to add some credit to my affirmation, I let you google this : "BEAD-air-A 2012-002-I". This is a report of one M-2000C incident during a PO. It is in french, but you can see some pictures of the plane ready for the mission with a central fuel tank full of fuel and the FBW limiter on A/A :thumbup:

Gents, No misunderstood, I am not saying that all my words don't need confirmation, I just get informations from one side and I share its with you. I think it is a chance to know someone that flew with this plane, I mean exactly this plane because he was at the "EC 2/12 Picardie". Here are some points, I think most of them are already known and will be fix in a futur update. Sorry if there are some recurrence : - FBW Limiter A/A : 2 Magics + 2 S530 + center fuel tank (full or empty) - FBW Limiter CHARGE : Wings fuel tanks and/or Bombs + 2 Magics - Landing Gear alert : "Vi<225kt and N<80% with LG in" OR "Vi>260kt LG out" - AP is really good only missing the star on the HUD : Right after take off, most of pilots turn on the autopilot. In flight, if they want to change the attitude of the aircraft, for small changes they use the trim joystick and for big changes they press the trigger on the hotas, pass through the AP, change the altitude/heading and release the trigger. Like this, the plane is very stable and the trim always good. Because the plane is naturally instable, this is how the AP have to be manage to get a stable plane. When the AP is OFF, the pilot have to manage the trim manually (even if it is a FBW plane). What's more, on that kind of plane, the main task of the pilot is to do the war, not piloting. That's the kind of information I got and I have some others less important at this state of development. One more time, no critic in my words just information that I share with you. I know the plane is in BETA and maybe all that stuff are already known by the RAZBAM team and are going to be fix.

Hello everyone, First of all I would like to say that you guys have done fantastic job to give us one of the most beautiful and efficient aircraft from my point view. This is the first time I post on this forum just to highlight a little problem with the FBW limiter Air/Air. I spoke yesterday with a good friend, which was a M-2000C french pilot 10 years ago, about the FBW limiter switch. The basic config for Air/Air combat with the M2000C is 2*Magics, 2*S530 and the central fuel tank. During the flight, the pilot never touches the FBW limiter and most of the time the switch is managing by the ground crew following the config (Air/Air or Ground) before the flight. I have read on the forum that the FBW limiter can be switch on A/A position only when the center fuel tank is empty, but it is wrong. There is 100% of chance that the M-2000C can support 9Gs with a full central fuel tank, 2 Magics and 2 S530. Maybe this problem will be corrected in the futur or maybe there are some others technical constraints with the code to simulate the difference between the center fuel tank and bombs on this payload but this is how it works in real life :thumbup:. I can get a lot of more informations on this plane and on how it is used in real life if you guys are interested. Cheers